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1.36.2.89
In Reply to: RE: I always thought that Madonna was a homely girl posted by Jay Buridan on August 17, 2018 at 19:36:54
She doesn't look like what she looked like in her 20s and 30s. As for talent - well a pop star's talent has never been strictly about their ability to sing or dance or play instruments - most supposed "serious" rock bands that get massive amounts of raves by people who rip pop acts play 4 cords and can't sing.
Madonna is a show-person who sold a persona (herself) more than just a song and dance act - those usually don't last long. Madonna is still going 35+ years on - it's not just smoke and mirrors - even if some people don't like her particular music - I actually prefer listening to any given Madonna song over any given Mariah Carey song - even though Carey is a much better technical singer.
I will give Madonna some credit in that she has a unique voice - she's instantly recognizable and that can count more than a great technical singer that sounds like a bunch of other great technical singers. A little raw sound over something that sounds too "air-brushed"
This is one review of Madonna's voice:
Vocal Type: Mezzo- Soprano
Vocal Range: 3 octaves 2 notes G2- B5 (approx)
Longest Note: 17 seconds (Ray of Light at Live Earth)
Vocal Pluses: Adapts her vocal style to the music she's singing well. The middle of her range is her strongest suit: it's solid, with a warm colouring and a clear timbre. Her chest voice is bright and sharp. While her head voice can be either soft and delicate, or direct and solid.
Vocal Negatives: Voice becomes thin and nasal, very quickly, as it gets higher up and into the chest range.
I also wonder if people tend to hate some of these singers because of their own religious upbringings - hating the singer because of the "controversies" like the video "Like a Prayer" or hating the Dixie Chicks over a comment or Gaga because she's pro LGBTQ?
Or perhaps people are irritated when a lesser talent sells way more albums or has more hits than artists they like a lot more or view as more talented.
Madonna's voice is respectable and above average for the genre (pop). And it's pretty tough to say her voice is an abomination - she's more than respectable.
Follow Ups:
You make good points about most rock musicians. I'd just add that they have no shame about exhibiting their lack of talent in front of crowds that have no taste.
Well taste is a funny thing because there are multiple reasons why people listen to the thing called music - music is largely written for a purpose and often a commentary of the time in which we live.And should a piece of music stand on its own or does one have to study the "history" surrounding the piece of music? This also applies to literature. Beowulf is a piece of literature that is considered great but it may be considered great because it was the first of its type - it doesn't mean it's the best.
Mozart was composing for stage plays - Shakespeare mainly wrote for the uneducated masses of his day.
I've often wonder what people consider when they like one form of music over another. I assume it comes down to the "difficulty level" of the music - or the perceived difficulty level of the instrument. And for a singer the most number of octaves in their vocal arsenal.
There was a fellow on these boards who basically said that John Coltrane and Miles Davis were second rate hacks - all they could do was toot a horn. All Jazz music is inferior dredge compared to Classical music. And within classical music all musicians are inferior to pianists which is the best instrument (presumably because it has the most range).
Granted I get when the old geezers on audio forums hate everything - I respect that - they don't make it like they did in my day - new fangled technology screwing with my plain porridge - that damn apple cinnamon and maple flavour killing me porridge - everyone should damn well like what I damn well like or they have no taste - everyone is a worthless buffoon but me."
If you like an electric guitar you're a screwball - and if a female singer can't shatter glass and hold a note for 72 seconds she's a talent-less hack. Pavarotti was a total bum - anyone who sells more than 25 albums worldwide is so popular they must be bums because if lots of people like anything it HAS to be bad.
Most people can't afford to be true "snobs" - for that you need the money to have a private jet and a fleet of Bugatti's. So we have to fall back on "Righteous Indignation" which is the poor man's snobbery.
"That guy in the Mercedes - piffle - if he had real money and wanted to impress me he'd own a Bentley."
"My millionaire boss got front row tickets to Led Zeppelin - piffle - all that money but no taste."
"Wow I am glad that Playboy Playmate turned me down for that millionaire baseball player - piffle - he spends more time in the gym in a week than he has spent in his life at the library so she must be a dumbbell"
"He graduate from Stanford University - piffle - well if you HAVE TO go to University on the west coast..."
I pity people who can't listen to music and see the heart and FUN of lot of modern music.
A lesson for the wannabe music snobs out there. @1:50
Edits: 09/15/18 09/15/18
As a result of avoiding rock concerts, I still have excellent hearing that I use for listening to music that I prefer. I have good eyesight, which I preserved by not looking directly at the sun during eclipses, and which I use for looking at beautiful things, reading good books, avoiding objects both moving and stationary, etc.
Saying that Coltrane and Miles were second rate hacks wouldn't make it true. And the Inmate who said it might be a snob -- or merely ignorant of the depth of theory that it takes to play jazz the way they played it.
But YMMV. For one man's open mind is another man's dumbing-down.
You pays your money and you takes your choices.
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