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In Reply to: RE: Madeline (Mrs. CfL) publishes or perishes again - this time to ARG posted by Chris from Lafayette on April 16, 2017 at 09:59:47
I've never seen ANY recording with that info!
As someone who has utilized edits I can't imagine why an artist or producer would want a listener to know about it. The whole idea is to make edits so seamless that they go unnoticed.
Some object to the whole idea of edits, must somehow be dishonest.
Some Classical recordings are said to have hundreds.
As if you just waltz in, lay it down, and it's Miller Time.
Movies are Edited. Books, too.
I only care about the final product.
I never watch "How it's Done" type of thing, because I don't care.
I read that (one of) Cannonball's Solos on a record was from a completely different take!
Now THAT'S Editing, when you just can't tell.
Tempest in a Teapot to me.
Don't just rely on my summary. ;-)
Generally, like you, I don't have any problems with editing. OTOH, she loves live, unedited performances - we were just listening to a live performance from 1989 of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto and the Brahms Fourth Symphony with Vaclav Neumann and the VPO (not the CzPO). The clarinetist, Peter Schmidl (first clarinet in the VPO at that time), muffs a passage right near the beginning of the Mozart (probably from nerves, since the rest of the performance was fine). Madeline was absolutely thrilled to hear this, since, to her, it restored the human element to the music making! It's not so much that she wants to stamp out editing, but she would like more of a balance between edited and unedited performances. Read her editorial - she states it much better than I'm doing right now.
C'mon Chris, flubs restore the human element? Who wants to hear the same mistakes over and over every time ya listen to a recording? Does anyone go to a concert hoping to hear a pianist screw up the first 4 bars of a sonata so that it sounds more "human"? I doubt that clarinetist is "thrilled" to have his flub on that recording because it makes him sound "human".
If mistakes represent the human element why not write them in? Think how much more "human" pieces could sound. For variety you could write in a few blatantly wrong notes for the clarinet to be played on Monday's performance, on Tuesday the first trumpet could blat out a high C three bars early, on Wed. the 2nd bassoonist plays bars 120-128 instead of bars 110-118 and so on. Oh, the humanity!
I don't have personal experience with editing "classical" recordings, but if some things I've read are true I do think they've gone over the edge. Hundreds of edits in a single piece? If that really is done, to me that's nuts, and I can't see how it could be even remotely necessary. What orchestra is so lame that they'd require hundreds of edits in one piece? An orchestra and/or soloist that bad shouldn't be recording in the first place.
But sane and *judicious* use of editing/overdubbing to correct a few mistakes and/or improve a recording makes sense to me. Beginning section of a 2nd movement is too sluggish but everything else is good? Why would an artist/producer/conductor not want to correct that by recording that section again and editing it in seamlessly?
my opinions are based on my experience, not Madeline's Article, or your Summary.
It's the way it is, and I for one, don't really care how it's done.
If I have something to say on a particular subject, I'll say it.
I'll read it, but I'm just expressing my already held opinion.
Certainly one-shot Live recordings will appeal to Madeline more, but they are few and far-between.
In Movies, a scene may done over and over, until the actors are really into it.
The same can occur at recording sessions, and what is heard in the booth will reveal things the musicians aren't aware of, being off or out of tune, out of balance, which they will try to improve by further takes.
I would certainly object to the opinion that edits are somehow dishonest, tho.
But I have no Threshold of Excess in that regard.
Lots off things went wrong during my recent week with the SFS, you noticed the Clarinet squeak.
No way they would let that on an Album, tho. ( No Album was recorded that week of course ).
Perfection is so difficult.
On my personal recordings of groups I'm in, mistakes become part of whole, I just accept and kind listen around them, and the sting fades with time, become less important, instead of the Huge Problem they seem initially, especially on my own Pieces/Arrangements!
I will say that this isn't a subject I think about much.
If part of one take can be combined with part of another, they'll use that and move on to something else.
Getting it all in one take never happens, in my experience.
Jazz solos are often over-dubbed, the best one used or combined.
Probably Solo Piano Recordings would be the place to look for Complete Take albums.
But it might not be the first take-
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