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In Reply to: RE: Oooooh! New Mahler 3rd from Fischer and Channel Classics posted by firstname.lastname@example.org on March 12, 2017 at 14:41:06
But, screw that. We need sensibleness. Mahler - defanged. Tamed. Filtered. Suburbanized. We need that. We need that now.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
John, I will let you know what I think.
#1, I hope the grading is accurate, though Harmonia Mundi's tend to be well taken care of
#2, forgive the few instrumental flubs, do some yoga, observe a 12 hour fasting on political discussions, turn phone off, internet off, lights off. Glass of wine OK.
#3, Crank it up. The mono sound is amazing. The sense of wonder and discovery is palpable. The 3rd was still and oddity back then.
And I've given it several tries over the years. Not sure what it is, but it has just never clicked with me. I'm still liking very much the Gilbert/NYP live recording (in excellent 96/24 sound). The MTT/SFS sounds fabulous in a DSD download (maybe the best sounding M3 out there), but MTT's too fussy for my tastes.
I see NYPO Live has quite a few issues including Sibelius.
Since it seems to matter so much to you, I'll acknowledge that I agree with you here. The Horenstein Mahler 3rd with the London Symphony is first rate and deservedly highly regarded, in my most humble opinion.
Oddly, shortly before the LSO recorded the Mahler 3rd with Horenstein, they recorded it with Solti for Decca, and that one is on the whole unsuccessful, in fact the only real dud I know of in the Solti/Mahler discography, again in my most humble opinion. Perhaps the decision to have the LSO record it again so soon has something to do with that.
But that's how it works here, Newey. People will agree with you sometimes, other times, not. Either way, it's all good.
Recording date, listed in the Mahler 3, was 1970.
The only date I could find for the Solti/LSO was 1967. He later re-recorded it with Chicago in 1983.
The decision to record the Mahler 3rd using the LSO by Solti and then Horenstein would not have been one that was taken by the LSO, IMO. In those days, labels made the decisions about what to record with which orchestras and conductors. Decca had an ongoing Mahler program with Solti, some of which was being done with the LSO, and Unicorn was doing some with Horenstein. There wouldn't have been a GM at the LSO who would have said " Gee, we don't like how the Solti recording turned out, so let's recruit another label and conductor to do this." While I don't know the actual sequence of recording dates, there is a chance that Unicorn would have decided to piggyback on the work done by Decca and Solti to prepare this symphony.
It is a shame the Horenstein did not get to record a complete set of Mahler symphonies in good sound with a good orchestra. He is one of the conductors who link back to Mahler himself, the others being Walter, Klemperer, Mengelberg, and Stowkowski (slightly - he was supposedly present at the premiere of the 8th). Of these, he is the only one other than Mengelberg who had all of the symphonies in his repertoire. Walter, for example, never conducted the 6th - it was overly nihilistic for him, and rarely conducted some of the others, including the 3rd.
In fact, I have no idea who produced and paid for the Horenstein version. I assume it wasn't Nonesuch, who released it in the US. In those days (circa 1970), Nonesuch was still a very modest budget label.
Both the recordings that ended up on Nonesuch (1st and 3rd) were originally recorded by Unicorn, as was the Nielsen 5th conducted by Horenstein. I have the LPs of the two Unicorn Mahlers. One I found here in the US in a used record and book store in LA, the other I bought from a UK seller. I also have the Nonesuch first - one day I will have to compare the two, to learn if the Nonesuch issues were actually inferior, as many have said. Frankly, though, I was so thrilled as a young man to find so many interesting recordings on Nonesuch.
These recommendations, including yours, are a big reason I'm here.
it will only get worse. ;-)
"Composers who have claimed, or can be demonstrated to have been influenced by Varèse, include Milton Babbitt, Harrison Birtwistle, Pierre Boulez, John Cage, Morton Feldman, Brian Ferneyhough, Roberto Gerhard, Olivier Messiaen, Luigi Nono, John Palmer, Krzysztof Penderecki, Silvestre Revueltas, Wolfgang Rihm, Leon Schidlowsky, Alfred Schnittke, William Grant Still, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, Frank Zappa and John Zorn."
That's a 'Rogue's Gallery' if there ever was one (OK, excepting Zappa).
I OD on electronic music pretty quickly, but the old Columbia Lp with that piece really grabbed me. Great, deep bass too. Can stand up to repeated listening.
The challenge was finding lp's with undamaged grooves towards the center; the piece ends with that upward, shrill whistle into infinity.
Inner grooves not a good place for a passage like that!
I loved Octandre from that LP.
SFS has Amériques on American Mavericks, great sounding recording.
That and recent Debussy sound better than (almost) any other orch recording i have.
After hearing SFS's wonderful Adams disc, I'm very interested in the Debussy. I just wish I could download "Parfumes" from Iberia first. It's my favorite mov't but some play it sultry and loose and others play it pretty straight-forward. I prefer the former.
Complete satisfaction or your money back, hey? OK, sounds like a deal.
if he has TIDAL.
I'll listen tonight. May already have as it's marked in my 'favorites'.
I especially like the opening primordial soup bit. The chorale climax has an ecstatic sweep much similar to "On the summit" from Strauss' Alpine Symphony.
The tymp and brass ending never really does it for me.
And probably never will. Subscription service, right? Out of curiosity, what does it cost, and what are the equipment requirements?
I run it using a laptop with their player software installed (OS-X or Win).
I run it out the USB port of my laptop to what I consider a top quality DAC(Audio-GD Master 11 DAC/Headphone Amp) for most listening but I also have it on my SONOS and on my main system via a Mac Mini and another Audio-GD Ladder DAC (Master-7).
Stop by sometime and compare your favorite CDs with what streaming sounds like. I live out at Ocean Beach in the Outer Sunset. There is not that much difference when using a decent computer and a really good DAC.
OK, maybe my CD player sucks, there is always that risk. ;-)
But streaming is so much a part of my musical discovery process that I also subscribe to QOBUZ which has an even larger obscure classical catalog, and sounds just as good if not better?
And I used to have Deezer Elite, another 16/44.1 streaming service as well as ClassicsOnlineHD before they closed it down.
No Cable TV and I get SONIC Gigabit Internet for just $40 a month so I'm $$ ahead of most folks.
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