|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
73.222.105.47
In Reply to: RE: I'm a Kertesz fan posted by rbolaw on January 08, 2017 at 07:59:03
"It should be Dvorak's Dvorak, not the conductor's Dvorak." Really, that's too simplistic - kind of like Landowska's, "You play Bach your way, I'll play Bach HIS way!" Only trouble is that, today, we're pretty sure that the way Landowska played Bach was likely far from HIS way. (That's not to say that he still might have enjoyed Landowska's performances. But that would be total speculation.)
No, even when a number of conductors legitimately claim to follow the score (Toscanini style!) they all manage to sound different from each other. There are too many parameters to control, and they couldn't sound exactly like each other, even if they tried! In a given performance, even the SAME conductor/orchestra won't necessarily sound like they did in earlier performances. The Neumann performances of the New World are an excellent example of this phenomenon, with some, as I mentioned, sounding noticeably different and more or less convincing. Even in regard to the two Kertesz performances of the New World, there seems to be a consensus that the performance with the VPO is quite a bit better than the one with the LSO. Are both of them Dvorak's Dvorak?
Follow Ups:
Chris, I'll repeat.......Not doing anything radical to a score doesn't equate to copping a standardized interpretation lacking emotion, color, texture, appropriate tempos, dynamic contrast, balance. Whuddya think, Dvorak didn't consider all those things when he wrote the scores? He needs Kertesz or Neumann to inject those things in his compositions?
Yeah, there obviously are performance/recording differences with different conductors. But BY FAR its the composition that is what's important - actually pretty much sacrosanct. Stray too far from what's on the score, take too many liberties and your gigs will be a tad thin.
Omit the repeat, the 1889 version as opposed to the 1899 revision, accent this not that, relatively slight tempo differences, balance preferences etc. (and recording sound). Yes, conductors do manage to sound different. But c'mon, its chickenshit compared to, say, the Beatles' original recordings vs. Duke Ellington's recorded versions of Beatles tunes. What conductor's gonna reharmonize Brahms and turn a largo into a mambo? I took an uptempo Wayne Shorter tune, added sections and made it a lilting ballad. Anybody who does that in the classical world has to title it something like "Variations On A Theme By Dvorak". Obviously no conductor's gonna do anything remotely like that with a performance of a Dvorak symph. because its the COMPOSITION - basically unadulterated - that really matters, not the conductor. I do believe that certain conductors get the best outta certain orchestras, and that's a big contribution towards a good version. According to what I hear that applies to Kertesz's LSO recordings of Dvorak symphs.
I did say that I know I'm different from a number of inmates here. There may well be versions of Dvorak I'd like even better than Kertesz's, but I'm satisfied. I'm sure as hell getting the gist of Dvorak via Kertesz and the sound quality on the LP's is enjoyable. We all have limited time. I'd rather hear 20 new pieces than spend that time listening to 20 conductors' versions of a Dvorak symphony.
In conclusion -- to each his own, but anyone who disagrees with me is full of shit :-)
Edits: 01/08/17
for Kertesz, Ancerl, Neumann, and the other famous conductors of the past mentioned in this thread. My point, which I don't think was arrogant, was that you can't put how a particular recording comes out entirely on the conductor. If one Kertesz version differs markedly from another of the same work, that would support my point.
I think the best way to evaluate a conductor is in live performance of an orchestra he or she has directed full time for many years, ideally not of a standard warhorse like the Dvorak 7, 8 or 9. Even then, you can't pin everything on the conductor. Look at the NY Philharmonic, where long time concertmaster Glenn Dicterow recently turned 65 and retired. Dicterow had been brought over from the LA Philharmonic by Zubin Mehta. So every music director since has been obliged to work with Mehta's hand picked concertmaster rather than his own.
I do concede that when a conductor compiles an extensive discography over a long career, especially with orchestras he directed for many years, there comes a point where he has to own its overall success or failure. Even there, I'm not looking at his New World or Pathetique Symphony to gauge his success.
The arrogance would lie in assuming that one can even present "Dvorak's Dvorak" or (pace Landowska) "Bach's Bach" through one's own interpretation. There's too much in the music that's vague and unspecified. (BTW, the reason I keep mentioning the New World Symphony is because it has the largest number and widest range of recorded interpretations of any of the nine Dvorak symphonies. And I suspect most of these interpretations would be thought of by their originators as honoring what the composer would have liked to hear. Sure, we'll always have conductors such as Mengelberg and Stokowski whose first priority seems to have been to put their own imprint on the music, but I think most conductors see themselves more as conduits to the composer's intentions - even though that's actually unrealizable in an absolute sense.)
And I do agree with Rick that if one is not interested in accumulating a large number of recordings of various warhorses, then it's fine to have a decent recording like the Kertesz/LSO set as one's only version. My OP was more concerned with reviewers (who, one would presume, SHOULD have a certain breadth of knowledge about the recorded versions of what they're reviewing) projecting their own "thrill of discovery" onto a given recorded interpretation. It's not unlike one's "imprint version" of a given work, which always seems to have a greater chance of impressing any given listener more powerfully, just because first impressions are often so strong.
Wanda's way!
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: