Audio Asylum Thread Printer
Get a view of an entire thread on one page
|For Sale Ads|
In Reply to: RE: And then there is good jazz, e.g., Solveig Slettahjell, Susanne Abbuehl, posted by Jay Buridan on July 30, 2012 at 08:48:50
Jay Buridan said...
" but most of the interesting music is coming from Europe. Americans are too stupid to appreciate good music"
Sure some good music is coming from Europe but a lot is not real jazz,
especially the like of Solveig Slettahjell, Susanne Abbuehl.
Even if you like them, these 2 ladies have a very small following even in Europe, they are pleasant but insignificant and certainly not bringing jazz forward.
How can we even compare them to the like of Sheila Jordan, Nancy king,
Karrin Allyson or Jay Clayton and many others. One must just surf "CD Baby" listen and discover some great talents.
I have over 200 different jazz singers in my collection, maybe 20% are from Europe.
Maybe I am a purist be we where talking about jazz, did we not.???
I listen to far more instrumental jazz than I do vocal jazz but I'm curious about your comment. I'm not trying to be confrontational but I'd like to get a clearer idea of what you mean by "real jazz?"
Let me offer up a (not comprehensive) list of living European musicians I generally like and perhaps you can tell me where you'd draw the "real" line:
Irene Schweizer, Tony Oxley, Evan Parker, Alexander von Schlippenbach, Gianluigi Trovesi, Louis Sclavis, Han Bennink, John Butcher, AMM, the guys in Atomic, Phil Wachsmann, Matts Gustafsson, Peter Brotzmann, Pierre Favre, Frank Gratkowski, Misha Mengelberg, Barry Guy,...
I think the line between jazz and modern classical is becoming increasingly blurry but I see that as non-issue. If the music contains an improvisational component and the artist wants to call it jazz I'm fine with that. Like Jay Buridan I probably would come down on the side of more interesting, at least nominally, jazz coming out of Europe in the interval from 1985 to 2005 than from the USA, especially if you count the ex-pat Americans among the Europeans.
I do find that there are a number of young, attractive female, more-or-less jazz singers (perhaps we could say marketed as jazz singers) that I find very lightweight. This doesn't, however, necessarily make them unenjoyable at least in small doses or as background music. I'd be more likely to add an asterisk to the jazz descriptor for those singers than to any of the musicians I listed above.
I was referring to so called jazz female singers. All the musicians you mentioned are jazzman, in actual fact I would nearly call them the "Avant garde"
But when it comes to singers these days most of them are just singers maybe backed by a jazz rhythm section, or singing jazz song, or mixing styles
So few have real jazz abilities. This proliferation of so called jazz singers is may due to the popularity of Diana Krall a decade or so ago.
I love singers but I love jazz thus the ones I enjoy are the jazz singers.
There is a forum dedicated to jazz singers called "Songbirds" and they have a very good description of today’s so called jazz singers, they call them "jazettes" which is cute and to the point.
Since I haven't followed the Songbirds forums I'm a little vague on what I'm signing on to but the sobriquet "jazzettes" sounds fairly appropriate.
I did enjoy the Cecile Mclorin Salvant performance you linked to not long ago.
How do you feel about Phil Minton and Theo Bleckmann?
such as the Claudia Quintet, Kurt Elling, Fred Hersch, Lee Konitz, Patricia Barber, Melody Gardot's 'My One and Only Thrill' album, for instance. IMHO these artists are making great art in the jazz genre. Most of the rest are talented, as you say, but are not making great art or interesting music. American culture is 99% moribund in its music and fine arts. We have good satire, e.g., Colbert Report and Book of Mormon on Broadway, because America is a joke. The Europeans (and Canada's D. Krall) are writing and making interesting music that is harmonically and instrumentally rich, e.g., Susanne Abbuehl's 'Compass' album, which is definitely jazz, with classical influences, e.g., Paul Hindemith. The lyrics are interesting, often from James Joyce, William Carlos Williams, e.e. cummings and other important blank-verse poets. Richard Galliano and Suzanna Wallumrod (sp?) are more good examples of European jazz art.
Karrin Allyson is nice easy listening. Not great art. I agree with the OP, if his point is that American music (including its jazz) is dumbed down considerably compared to the time of Duke Ellington's 'Far East Suite' and Abbey Lincoln's 'Turtles Dream'.
I know you're a jazz afficionado with good taste in music. You've steered me to much great music. And I mean no offense to you.
"Most of the rest are talented, as you say, but are not making great art or interesting music. American culture is 99% moribund in its music and fine arts."
You may not have found it but it's an extra step to say it's not there. There are hundreds and hundreds of American musicians making great art and interesting music.
But most American music is crap, IMHO
Your specific taste may be suited to a particular variety that is popular in Europe, but that has nothing to do with what's "crap". I can assure you if your impression is that "most American music is crap", it is a reflection of your awareness of what's out there.
no sense in disputing about taste, so have a nice life.
Everyone has their taste, your statement was something different.
But for some good news...
Check out Rene Marie, Downbeat's "Rising Star" female vocalist. Not a kid by any means, but due to unfortunate family conditions was late to the party. Her two most recent CDs "Voice of My Beautiful Country" and "Black Lace Freudian Slip" are gems.
For the youth scene, check out Taylor Eigsti and Christian Scott. There is hope.
"We are as gods and might as well get good at it." - Stewart Brand
We definetely have a different idea of what jazz is all about.
Melody Gardot could be called popjazz, compared the Karin Allyson cd she did with Nancy King. I have the Susanne Abbuehl cd and again I do not call it jazz, her phrasing and voice are not jazz.
Actually I do not know of one European singer that express a true jazz feeling, maybe the closest would be Karin Krog or Laila Dalseth??
But yes to each is own and Vive la difference.
The best jazz gig I've seen in the past year was the Wayne Shorter quartet
which was amazing. And I am sure that if you spent a week in the New York jazz clubs you will hear more real jazz than anywhere else in the world.
and Charles Lloyd
Post a Followup:
Post a Message!
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: