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I think most people understand the word 'genius' in a primarily black or white way. Either you are or you aren't. IMO, in all art, there exists different 'levels' of genius. Applying the word to art isn't the same as applying it to science.
(nt)
Genius is the wrong word, perhaps. I believe Brian is one of the best conduits of music of the past 100 years. Brian has a sense of melody and chord structure that few others have. His ability to hear new combinations of instruments and utilize them in recordings was pioneering in his day.
I've always marveled at how he changes key in songs without the listener noticing. His multi-part harmonies treat the human voice as instruments and he also pioneered the studio as an instrument. So, musical genius, yes. Very high musical IQ. Einstein? No.
"talking about music is like dancing about architecture". While I don't commpletly agree with that, I do think that genius (as well as beauty) is in the eye (and ears) of the beholder.
okay?!
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
I guess my question to you is "genius" limited to a certain period of the arts? Can nothing else qualify since then?
Beethoven, Mozart, Bach for music. No Brian Wilson or Beatles, much less Berlin, Gershwin, or Porter?
After Shakespeare, Dickens, and Tolstoy, are all other writers less than genius?
I think you are refining the word to too pure a state.
At the same time I was being introduced to high culture, as a performer.I used to sing the Beach Boy's / Brian Wilson's stuff, it's not demanding, difficult or even particularly expressive, lyrically it's almost all trite. Heaps of fun, yes!
I'd put Porter, Gershwin and Berlin ahead of Brian Wilson, not miles ahead mind. Especially for their synthesis of lyrics and music.
I also think the Beatles were more creative as artists than Brian or the Beach Boys. But, I don't think Sergeant Pepper is 'the case' for their genius. I'd put Rubber Soul and Revolver well ahead of it, plus some of the earlier singles and possibly, the White Album.
Lastly, the best candidate for pop music genius in the 'baby-boomer pop' genre is Frank Zappa.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Edits: 05/17/12 05/17/12
And I'm okay with that.
When I say Brian Wilson is a genius, I don't mean that he wrote the best pop songs of the era. He didn't. Rather, I mean that he had that level of raw talent. And I believe that he did. His harmonic sense and his ability to conceptualize multiple voices are the evidence.
I'm not talking about something that can be learned. Learning, personality, effort, and musical style all contribute to the quality of a piece of music and so it is possible for a composer of lesser innate talent to outdo one of greater innate talent. The popular artist in particular is constrained by his audience and the form, and, not infrequently, by lack of learning.
Being "a genius" is a little bit different than displaying a degree of ingenuity (or, having "genius"), at least according to my dictionary. I might agree that Brian Wilson "had genius", and for some, that would be enough to make him deserving of the label. I'm not so sure...
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Edits: 05/16/12
Ingenious, clever, a great synthesiser of styles. I have always like the Beach boys and indeed could sing the falsetto bits loudly and truly. See below.
I reached ten yrs in 1960, also eeh year my father finally died from war causes, and grew up on the coast in Australia, looking at the surf every day. Balsa boards, hand boards, body surfing, surf skis. Surfing past noahs at least once a year to boot.
In any case hi-fi did not start out being about pop music, and it still isn't, for me.
So, why don't the Beach Boys seem to to me to be truly great music? Perhaps because I was fortunate to have been encouraged to audition for our city's Cathedral as a chorister, and be accepted, and so pop music just doesn't quite make it for me. Important though it is and always will be.
My cohort at my high school were the second year to do twelve years of schooling and three of us obtained entry to the Australian National University, a very tight knit group. We also had a rock band, and guess who led the backing group? All those girls are still good friends.
Noahs arks? Rhyming slang.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
... he was closely related to that thing. There is a package full of things - all of them related to music making - that the modern pop star must show ingenuity for. Some of the things included in this "package" are sensitivity to modern fashion or sentiment, musicianship, the (tireless) innovative spirit, marketing ability, stamina. In other words, Brian Wilson displayed his "genius" for the making, packaging, and delivery of pop music. Something like a modern Paganini.
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Edits: 05/16/12 05/16/12 05/16/12
Funny, I think of it as being precisely the opposite. The Beach Boys' music is uncool to the point of dorkiness. It succeeded mostly because of Wilson's outsized talent.
Well, I only implied that Brian Wilson was ingenious and successful in some ways. He was very good at framing the aesthetics of a certain time and place during the 1960's. "Coolness Factor"? That's another issue entirely. We are all dorks in certain ways, I'm sure...
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Edits: 05/18/12
Very much so. :-)
Thanks for the positive affirmation... I think.
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
There is ingenuity in his work, in his perceptions, and in his sense of fashion. He borrowed freely from many musical traditions but he also helped to frame the spirit of a certain time, even a certain place. This is a special type of genius and it is not to be laughed at. Without the kind of "genius" that Brian Wilson possessed, few people would have bought or listened to his music during his time. I don't think he was a genius in the sense that Bach was, but who cares? Why compare Apples and Oranges?
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
Edits: 05/15/12 05/15/12 05/15/12
Perhaps, assuming you are sincere, if you want informative opinions about rock/pop music you should post on the rock music forum.
Here, in the 99% classical (occasionally jazz) forum, you won't find much intelligent offerings on rock music. And, if you read all the previous replies to you original question, you'll see that there's a lot of utter garbage from the know-it-all's here.
Knowing the history and "style" of certain monikers who replied, most of the drivel was to be expected.
Best of luck to you.
.
You don't find him to be a talent.
But the condescention is telling.
d
/
albums of all time, a game-changer that led to Sgt. Pepper's.
Now, go look up Sgt. Pepper's...
ahead, too.
And, I'm not alone in that view.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
I bet you can't point to a single specific thing.
He took the vocal harmonization of pop-folk music groups and applied them to rock.
Bob Dylan, on the other hand, was a truely awful musician who found out you didn't need to know how to sing if you had something to say. In fact, he outdid the people who could sing and had something to say.
Observe, don't think
If not. maybe there were none.I'm not so sure that Brian Wilson was a genius. I agree that genius, as well as most superlatives are too easily awarded in these days of the latest and greatest and where historical perspective is ignored or unknown to the person awarding the title.
Edits: 05/12/12
He can't sing; he can't entertain; he's a passable actor; he can,
however, write a pretty good tune now and again.
MK
i've seen him dozens of times and the thousands of people who join me are very entertained - not sure how you judge "entertaining", but that works for me
just curious, who entertains you?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -HST
I think Dylans singing is perfect he sounds just like Bob Dylan.
Really? You don't have anything better to do? Go volunteer in your community. Call your mother. Pick up your yard. Wash the car, anything other than this.
In a few articles that I had seen mentioning Brian Wilson, the term "genius" was often found. In listening to his music, I find some great pop music, some excellent pop lyrics but could not really understand the genius label. Knowing that there are some incredibly knowledgable people that use these forums might offer some insights as to what that might be about.
You never know, learning what others see/hear and appreciate may actually help others appreciate something.
As for your list of tasks, all done. They maybe good suggestions for yourself instead of making absolutely useless comments on posts.
Yeah, this does have a bit of a troll feel to it.
/
Alright, I'll take your word for it, your not a troll. I have my chores done, so I'll give you a response. First, your comment, while evidently sincere is the equivalent of a post on a comedy forum of: "Groucho Marx, funny? How/why?"
My comment, however, was not directed necessarily at your original post. If you hadn't noticed the dialog only went down hill from your start. We get an argument that Brian Wilson is not a Beethoven or Sibelius or Mozart. Then we move on to an attack on Bob Dylan, who evidently is not a musician, singer,or entertainer despite significant eveidence to the contrary. (50+ years as a professional musician, over 50 albums mostly his own compositions, years of touring,....) Then we get a response the yes in fact Bob Dylan is a genius. I mean, what you are seeing is that every one has an opinion, like everyone has an ...
Did you really learn anything from that? Did you really expect to?
If you would like to learn a little about Brian Wilson there are many articles about him and his music, particularly now when remaining members of the Beach Boys, including Brian are performing. Buy a copy of Pet Sounds, an album Rollimg Stone rated as the #2 of the top 500 albums, behind only Sgt. Pepper. Listen to God Only Knows three times (if you hear more on the third listen than you did on the first, then its a keeper) Or, pick up Smile and listen to Heroes and Villains or Good Vibrations. Then you will have your own opinion, which will, and should be, of most value to you.
As for Bob Dylan, I would reccomend Bringing It All Back Home, Blonde on Blonde, and Love and Theft as three albums worth the listening test, and then you can have your own opinion on him too.
Sorry if I offended you. Hopefully I have given you some useful suggestions on how to proceed regarding Mr. Wilson.
Not to mention The Walrus...
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But then you have to find a new word to describe real geniuses like Beethoven and Sibelius.
I'm sure Brian Wilson's unfortunate psychological difficulties help pop-culture observers categorize him as a genius. The popular conception of a genius is often someone with "issues."
-Bob
Honestly, I don't agree. I consider Beethoven one of the three greatest composers of all time. But I still think Brian Wilson is a musical genius. I'm not sure that I'd describe any other rock musician that way. Paul McCartney, perhaps -- the drivel of his post-Beatles career notwithstanding.
"But then you have to find a new word to describe real geniuses like Beethoven and Sibelius."
Pffft! All three fit the term with or without your sarcasm.
"..Brian Wilson's unfortunate psychological difficulties help pop-culture observers categorize him as a genius."
With most pop culture fans/critics/writers even the most base and lowbrow of music can be elevated to stuff of genius in their minds. "Pop-savant" a better term for top pop performers/composers.
He wrote a book of music about 50 years ago that is still being heard and enjoyed. There is a very short list of writers/arrangers that have done the same.
How do you define "genius"?
"Genius" is often used inappropriately. The OP title is an example of this. If we're talking about Mozart then certainly few would disagree (unless they're ignorant or apathetic to great music) that Mozart was a music "genius".
"an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart. Synonyms: intelligence, ingenuity, wit; brains."
I stand by my statement that Brian Wilson was exceptional/genius in his music. His music from the 60's is distinctive and original in it's production values. Drugs and mental problems robbed him of doing more.
Can only a classical composer be genius?
Musical genius occurs at all times and all places. I would never suggest that Brian Wilson's music was the equal of Mozart's, but then, he had much less craft. I agree that he was a musical genius and sometimes wonder what he would have done had he been born into an era in which his gift could have been properly developed. (Not to mention what would have happened if he hadn't fried his brain with LSD.)
Brian Wilson was minor sixties tune smith. In the first half of the century America had some really good poplar song writers. Most of what followed was second rate.
He had a natural mastery of harmony and counterpoint.
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