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. . . and if I were a violinist, I would not play it, not that I have ever been able to resolve to play the [Brahms] piano concertos."
No, it wasn't Tchaikovsky who said this - but which composer was it?
Follow Ups:
I've always admired his symphonic works but I can't say I truly loved them. But the more I listen to his chamber music, the more I take him to heart. I recently discovered his string quartets, but it is the string quintets (especially Opus 111) that really just astounded me, and I hold them very dear to my heart now.
-Bob
You might like this........... This is my favorite performance of the Brahms VC............
Edits: 04/01/12
I do not like Brahms much at all. I know some folks just love his music.
I can actually listen to his symphonies.. but would rather not.
I do not know why I dislike him and his music. But I do.
Usually i keep this fact to myself, but this seemed a good moment to spew it out.
Turns out he's a difficult composer, and I've found that with difficult composers, the key to enjoyment is to listen to their works until you graps the syntax and they start to make sense. Once that happens, you'll find that the boredom disappears, and that Brahms is as rich, moving, and fascinating as one could wish.
Your are not alone, Elizabeth.
He was a fine variation-writer, though. My father used to say "If Brahms were alive today, he'd be a jazz musician." Harrumph!
Jeremy
IMO, if the conductor or performer is an unknown, the odds of failure are greater than with maybe any other composer. Bad Brahms can sound cramped, boring like a long opera, and even repulsive....... This is why there have been slogans such as "Exit in case of Brahms"..... If you get the gist..........
But on the other hand, there is nothing like Brahms done right......... One of the great Brahms performances to make recording is the Stern/Ma/Chicago/Abbado Double Concerto........ One of the keys to great Brahms is the melodic line........ In the case of the Double Concerto, for example, in the final movement, the violinist and cellist too often play the melody like repetitive "phrasing drills", and losing melodic line........ This is what makes the Ma/Stern performance so special (link below), they avoid that trap, the melody takes on a personality....... This is one of those performances if you don't like it, maybe Brahms is not for you. And Brahms is not for everybody.
I agree with you, Todd, on the Abbado-conducted Double Concerto. Another one for the ages is the Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland performance on EMI.
"Another one for the ages is the Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland performance on EMI."
This performance is also on YouTube ........ I like the accompaniment better, but Oistrakh's playing falls into that "repetitive phrase drill" trap that I alluded to earlier........ Rostropovich does better, but I prefer Ma with the cello part.
The best violin part I've heard was Zino Francescatti.
Besides J-Fi on Pentatone, there's Lisa:
I'm mad that this hasn't come out in blu-ray yet, so I have to settle for the lossy sound on the DVD.
I find most of the people who don't like Brahms are of the female persuasion . My ex couldn't stand his music . Personally I love it . Try chamber music like the clarinet quintet and for orchestral the symphonies conducted by Walter . Then if you still don't like Brahms , you're confirmed .
I prefer listening to his Violin or Piano concerto over his symphonic work so far.
That said I love his VC.His chamber music is fine, I'm very partial to his clarinet sonata. I was introduced to it in a recreated Brahms/Schumann Soiree as performed in the home of Clara Schumann on November 13, 1894. David Shifrin, Clarinet, Carol Rosenberger Piano. Delos. Excellent performance of the Brahms sonatas op 120, # 1&2, and Schumann's Fantasiestucke op 73.
And his music for the solo Piano ain't chopped cheese! For a broad introduction Antonin Kubalek's 2 volumes on Dorian are excellent. Those 3 intermezzi op117 can stand repeated listening........:-)
Edits: 04/02/12 04/02/12
I like his chamber music and lieder a lot. His choral works, such as the German Requiem and his choral lieder are fantastic too.
Some of my favorite Piano music there.
I love Symphony #3, the organ symphony
Alan
Somebody French, I betcha'.
My money is on Saint Saens.
The reason I posted this is because you can (or could) buy the actual manuscript on which Saint-Saëns wrote these words - for less than $2,000 (such a bargain!). Link below - scroll down to number 38 when you get there.
. . . but I didn't expect to have to think of a prize so soon! :-)
about French composers in general, doubtless including Saint-Saens, than Saint-Saens was about him, using a pungent word to describe them.
(when we had a streaming video performance of Brahms's First Symphony going on our system). . . I'd rather be listening to the Organ Symphony! (She was not amused.)
Actually, I do like Brahms a lot - I just don't like the aura of musical sainthood that many listeners try to create for him. OTOH, I think that Saint-Saëns is too easily dismissed as a musical light-weight, so I take the opportunity to promote/defend his music any time I can.
Guess I'm guilty, because I feel the same way they do. I used to have fun blasting the Telarc Organ Symphony, tho.
that Saint-Saens' operas, the chief basis for his fame in his day, are mostly forgotten today, with the possible exception of Samson and Delilah. And he considered The Carnival of the Animals, probably his best-known piece today, such an embarrassment he would not allow it to be performed in public, except for Le Cygne.
I have no idea why Brahms has such an exalted reputation while Saint-Saens is, as you say, dismissed. Apparently they were both reasonably modest and dignified, and justifiably respected, musical eminences in their day.
"I have no idea why Brahms has such an exalted reputation while Saint-Saens is, as you say, dismissed."
Maybe because Brahms was about a hundred times better composer than Saint-Saens. That said, personally, I probably listen to more Saint-Saens than I do Brahms these days having overdosed on his symphonies and most of the piano music before I turned 20. I do often listen to the Brahms lieder as performed by Fischer-Dieskau and the three not-so-well-known very early piano sonatas. Of course, among others of his works, the Horn Trio is a towering masterpiece of which I never tire of.
Well, the lieder, the solo piano music and the horn trio are all good reasons to regard Brahms as a great composer, in many ways far ahead of Saint-Saens, Gounod, or any of the other French composers he detested.
But as you implicitly concede when you say that you listen to Saint-Saens more often than Brahms, it isn't simply about who is "better" (the New York Times to the contrary), the wide variety in art is a large part of its appeal. Any collection of music entitled "The Best of ...." makes me wince. If someone's music is truly worth hearing, it's worth getting beyond a publisher's or editor's arbitrary choice of "the best".
The way I look at it is that steak is better than hot dogs, but I enjoy hot dogs, too.
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