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Carnaval. Right now, I'm listening to Artur Rubinstein's version. A very whiz bang performance with rarely a clunker note. But something is missing. It seems as if he is playing this as a challenge or a competition in some of the movements.
There is some bit of Schumann's soul that he is bypassing, compared to some other, perhaps less perfect in some ways, versions. I have noticed this in some other virtuoso performers. Perlman is one. Primo technical facility, but a shallower emotional affinity.
Perhaps, I'm all wet here. How would I know what Schumann's soul was striving for? A ridiculous statement, no?
Follow Ups:
Thank you all for your comments. I have learned a lot more than what I'd expected. About Schumann, some of the pianists, and myself. To add to all the recordings that I've heard so far, I just played Curzon's recordings of the Fantasy and Kinderszenen on Decca.
Very worthy recording. I looked up Haggin and this was the one he recommended for the Fantasy.
I cannot believe that after all this time, I've yet to come up with a clear favorite. There are many good ones. I will have to let this cook for awhile. Just like I had to do with the Appassionata Sonata.
It sounds like this has been an enjoyable survey. Narrowing down to a few good performances (out of many) is no easy task. I applaud your dedication and love for the composer and I admire your sagacity and insight into the music as well.
I don't think that it's possible to narrow down to a single "best" performance however. Clara Schumann, the virtuoso for whom these works were written, alas, left no recordings.
I've found that the more recordings of a particular work I listen to, the more I feel this way myself - There seem to be unique insights to a given musical work that I get from almost EVERY performance I hear! (Well, I guess there ARE exceptions every once in a while.) ;-)
Totally unique performance!
Thanks. Just you and Chris.
Since you're going full bore into Schumann, you MUST get a performance of the original version of the 3rd Sonata/Concerto without orchestra. Charles Rosen has repeatedly speculated that, as Schumann fell further into psychiatric distress, he went back and removed many of the original oddities and aggressive peculiarities in his earlier music as a way to hide the encroachment of madness. The 3rd Sonata was one of the works that received such a revision.
I recommend an Andras Schiff live recital with a forceful interpretation of that 3rd sonata as well as the Noveletten. You will want to hear the sonata - it is inspired and utterly original. Sound on the Schiff dsisc is very good, to help matters..
. . . but I consider several of the names mentioned in this thread so far to be technically weak. It's very well to say that a given pianist may not be the greatest technician but is able to get to the heart of the music - but IMHO a certain minimum technical standard is required, and for my money, some pianists do not meet that standard on their recordings. Schumann's music is particularly revealing of technical lapses, every bit as much as it's revealing of any lack of interpretive poetry. I can't stomach some pianists' dogged traversal of these demanding works, and in most cases, I feel the reasons for their failure are technical as much as interpretive.
Then, there are also some surprising failures by pianists who have technique to burn - I'm thinking of some of Marc Andre Hamelin's Schumann recordings, which combine sections of absolutely miraculous playing with sections of indifferent interpretation. Maddening!
Having said that, I do have certain pianists I trust in this repertoire, and they're mostly Russian, starting with the big one - that would be Richter. Even Richter is surpassed in some works however. Others would include Demidenko, Lugansky, Volodos, Postnikova (if you can find her recording of Kreisleriana), Egorov, then, moving westward, Pogorelich and Lazic. In the Noveletten the French pianist, Claire Desert, has a great recording.
huh?
Hope you're not complaining about Uchida's technique (although I don't like her Schumann, either). She's pretty fabulous (technically) in Beethoven Op. 111, for example. I doubt she's working up Islamey in her spare time :) but I bet she could play it just fine if she wanted.
. . . I don't know if I'd relish hearing Mitsuko in a performance of Islamey! ;-)
I'd greatly appreciate a professional pianist's view of any technically weak Schumann performances which have been positively mentioned.
My ego is not at stake here. In fact, if you would be as specific as possible, that would be even better. Thanks.
Hi, Michael - In order to quote chapter and verse, it would be necessary for me to re-listen and make notes as to who transgressed where. Unfortunately, my schedule is not allowing for this right now. I listened to three recordings of Carnaval the night before last, but all I can offer is general impressions. Mitsuko Uchida was OK, but no more than that - I feel that her application of rubato does not flow naturally, and in general, I feel that she is one of those "earnest" pianists who should stick with Mozart. With Alfred Cortot, the question as to how many mistakes is too much will surely arise, and, in this work, it's just beyond my acceptability threshold. In addition to some ravishing sections, he's got other sections which sound, frankly, amateurish - he was one of the ones I had in mind when I made my "not technically up to snuff" claim. The other one I listened to was Arrau, in a mono recording in which he shows considerably more energy than he does on his later Philips recordings. Nevertheless, I've never found his articulation to be impressive or ideally clean, and although he's not bad here, he's not the best either.
As I say, I just don't have the time to listen to more right now. If I were trying to choose the best Carnaval among those I've heard, I guess I might choose the live Michelangeli performance on Testament (recorded before his playing had ossified into something considerably less spontaneous). Egorov is pretty good too, but recorded with too much resonance, which inhibits the audible clarity of his articulation. (Too bad!) I haven't listened to Kuleshov's performance in a long time, but I remember that one as being good too. The are a couple I haven't heard which MIGHT be very fine, such as Primakov's. Actually, there are too many to hear - as Rachmaninoff said, music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime isn't enough for music. And BTW, Rachmaninoff's recording is in a class of its own, but you have to put up with the ancient sound quality.
I'm still curious how you rate her Op.9!
I'll try to find her performance and let you know.
might be interesting for me to listen to it since i haven't heard too many Op.9.
Wasn't this recommended by Haggin? Thank you for this.
But good god, it's nice. Her playing just makes me smile.
Only other Op. 9 I have is Moiseiwitsch which does not do a darn thing for me. ( where's that fun spirit?! )
Thanks. Look, I agree that Uchida may not be the most consistently good Schumann interpreter, despite her chops. I have some of hers in Mozart and I like them. I am disappointed by her Schumann Fantasy. I have not heard the work you mentioned.
Cortot? Ok, he is great in some Chopin, but from an era when pianists were not held to the standards that exist today. I have never heard his Schumann.
Arrau, I am not familiar with, only by reputation.
My concerns are with de Larrocha and Kempff. I like their approaches in Schumann, although I can hear some off notes. It is too bad that the recordings I've heard were performed in their later years when their technical facilities were diminished.
I have also briefly heard, but will continue to listen to, both Pollini and Perahia doing their Schumann. I respect their technical facility and taste, although I have some doubts about them overall in Schumann. That is specifically in Op. 17. They are first rate in many other recordings I have of them with other composers.
I will continue on my quest and it will take a lot longer than I originally thought.
My hope is that you will consider this something for the longer term. If you love Schumann music, I hope you will consider continuing to follow up on this whenever you get the chance to post about it.
I'm retired and still quite busy. I can understand how the overload of everyday life can interfere with any commitments that are non essential to every day life.
I appreciate your comments on this.
I'm not retired yet, and moreover, I "moonlight" as a piano accompanist - and this is really a busy time of year, with certificate of merit auditions, local competitions, and teacher recitals. So this situation kind of limits my time. Believe me, I'm looking forward to being retired, but it won't be for a few more years, at which time I'll be able to do a lot more listening than I'm able to do now. ;-)
BTW, Schumann is definitely in my "top ten" of favorite composers.
It might give me a good opportunity to seek out more Op.9s for me to listen to.
I would definitely add Kuchnerova to that list of Russian pianists . Have you heard her playing ?
I'm a novice so would be curious to hear from your professional view.
. . . I'd like to re-listen to make sure I still hear these performances the same way. ;-) This may take a few days.
Not the Op.9 but I have heard some pianists misses some keys, but so long as they are successful in making me see the forrest, I don't mind them missing a few trees.
Moravec has an excellant recording of the piano concerto
Alan
Just got this yesterday. I listened to it for the first time last night. I have no overall impression yet.Moravec is the kind of artist that I need to listen to many, many times. His playing is accented in an unfamiliar way and it takes me a while to understand the accent. His art seems subtle and profound. He seems to be a musician's musician.
I really enjoyed the Franck piece and Moravec's performance of the Kinderszenen.
Edits: 03/20/12 03/20/12
Schumann is tough music. The difficulties in this music seem irresistable to virtuosi in the same way that moths are drawn to flames or bees are drawn to blooms.Lots of people play Schumann who should not be.
This music was written as a kind of virtuoso (venus fly) trap. Too many of the best performers lose the forest for the trees. They get lost in Schumann. They spend so much time dotting every i and crossing every t that they lose sight of the music's overall shape and structure.
Warped, mis-shapen Schumann sounds very, very wrong and yet too many performers cannot even perceive this. I think the music was written this way...the ultimate joke at the expense of the kind of musicianship that Schumann disliked.
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I've only listened to one Hamelin disc where the music wasn't smothered by his virtuosity, and that's his Nikolai Kapustin disc. Kapustin's music was largely virtuosic, so I suppose Hamelin would be a natural for it. He might do well with Liszt too, but I haven't heard any of those recordings. He gets called a super-virtuoso which I suppose means that he's in the habit of playing music at a tempo where it ceases being music--the opposite of what you would want in Schumann.
Edits: 03/20/12
And I love his recordings of Alkan, Kapustin, Liszt, et al., as well as his encore repertoire CD's - they're just super! But when he gets to the more standard repertoire, I don't know what happens, because, for all his command, he's often less impressive than some of his technically inferior colleagues. And I feel it's not really a case of excessive speed, but rather it's more a question of texture, phrasing, and interpretive choices in general. Of course, this isn't always the case (I love his Schumann Piano Quintet with the Takács Quartet, and his Brahms Second Piano Concerto is very good too), but it happens often enough to be mystifying.
Chris - Had the same reaction as you to Hamelin's Symphonic Etudes. A humdrum performance.
But I found the Hamelin Schumann disc curiously unsatisfying. I also love most of his other recordings, but this one somehow fell flat. I don't think I own his Symphonic Etudes disc, but it has lukewarm reviews at amazon.
Parts of it are very good indeed - others, not so much.
I agree. even though Pollini can play incredibly fast, he uses speed to reinforce musical ideas. Perhaps the problem with Hamelin's playing is that the dynamics are too uniform making his interpretations sound like a concerto for machine gun and orchestra.
Sometimes (but not always) I feel Hamelin's dynamics in the standard repertoire are, as you say, too uniform, but I've never felt that his articulation was inappropriately machine-gun like. (As I mentioned, his recording of the Brahms Second Concerto is very good IMHO - although it's not my first choice.) And it really does seem to be dependent on what he's performing - I suppose that's true of any musician, but Hamelin's magnificent recordings of out-of-the-way repertoire set up such high expectations with me that I'm all the more disappointed when I feel he doesn't measure up in certain standard repertoire works.
greatest pianists of the 20th century all on one cd package (Andante) with marvelous notes.
Oh, lest I forget, also Tagliaferro, Rachmaninoff, Godowsky, and Gieseking.
If truly you wish to appreciate Schumann, you MUST get this set.
It has all of his solo piano music. And many selections are played by several different artist that not only allows you to appreciate the differences in technique by these legendary artists, but also to hear different qualities and nuances in the sublime music.
I've gushed before about this collection, and deservedly so: I know of no comparable treasure trove of any other composer's oeuvre.
Robert Schumann, "Piano Works," Andante.
Just curious, how did you first learn about this set? I did finally find it after a lot of searching.
I could not find this on Amazon.
I would appreciate learning HOW to get this set!
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Pamela Ross. Thanks, my list is getting mighty long. I just picked up 10 Schumann CDs at the library today. Amazingly, they are all in great condition. Perhaps they've hardly ever been checked out. Shame.
BTW:Faschingsschwank Aus Wien
Fasching means Carnaval in Catholic Europe, right? What is Schwank?
I think it just means sights or incidents at the carnival.
"Schwank" is a German word for funny story or farce. "Faschingsschwank aus Wien" would be a funny Fasching (pre lent celebration) story from Vienna.
, , , "Carnival Jest from Vienna". Hence the humor in my post below.
I don't think you are off track.There's been an enormous amount written about Robert Schumann and his music...much of it written by Schumann himself. He was an excellent writer and very, very literary and wrote extensively about his music as well as the music of others.
Moreover, his wife Clara, outlived him by some 40 years and she was a tireless champion of Robert's music. Through her efforts, we know a lot more about the compositions and the inspiration behind them.
Furthermore, all of Robert Schumann's compositions bear the stamp of his unique artistic vision and out-sized personality...a Schumann composition becomes easy to recognize to those who are familiar with his art.
So, I don't think that you (or anyone who loves Schumann) is so far off base to claim an understanding of the composers' unique artistic vision and the unique qualites of his personality that underly his art.
To those who love Schumann's music and those who have had a long aquintance with his music, it becomes very, very clear whether or not a given interpreter actually "gets" Schumann's music.
Schumann can be very difficult music for performing artists. His music seems to separate the wheat from the chaff...to separate those with deep understanding from those who are merely displaying their technique.
Many performers who get the notes right often fail to understand the music they are playing and fail to connect to the spirit of the composer which infuses the music. Too many performing artists come across as stilted, lost and heavy handed in Schumann's charming and whimsical sound world (they come across as virtuoso bulls released inside the china shop of Schumann's musical compositions).
Too many performing artists inadvertantly wreck these delicate scores. This is extremely evident to Schumann lovers. When things go wrong in Schumann performance, they tend to go catastrophically wrong and since these are largely errors of interpretation and judgement, even the greatest technique cannot cover up these flaws.
Some of the most famous virtuosi fall completely flat in Schumann. It's the nature of the music vs. the nature of virtuosity.
So, in my estimation Schumann's music will (in decades and centuries to come) continue to divide the wheat from the chaff...to separate those with deep understanding from those who are merely displaying their technique.
Edits: 03/19/12 03/19/12 03/20/12
Thanks for that. I've been an idiot for years of collecting recordings, some of which I never listened to more than once. But it's like some music is nourishment for me. I'm addicted. It adds something immeasurable to my life.
I should begin to gather my desert island picks for when I'm in the home. I've even thought about what music I'd like playing if I were on a deathbed of a lingering illness.
Do you know the quote from the old American Record Guide: "Music has charms? My foggy brain has forgotten it.
Search engine found: the heart replies.
___
There is in souls a sympathy with sounds;
And as the mind is pitch’d the ear is pleased
With melting airs or martial, brisk or grave;
Some chord in unison with what we hear
Is touch’d within us, and the heart replies.
Poem by William Cowper
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It's my fave as it is lyrical, rhythmic and fun. Playful but confident. Her stuff gets insights into the music for me.
Thanks for that!
. . . in a foreign catalogue of "rare" recordings. Op. 26 was listed as "Carnival's just from Vienna"! Probably too esoteric to list on Engrish.com! ;-)
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Have you listened to Finghin Collins double CD of Schumann piano pieces?
Thanks. Has he recorded the Fantasy? Looks like Amazon is out of his Schumann Double CD so you are not alone. I will make a note to watch for him. Maybe he will be on youtube sometime? I will check.
So far he's issued volumes one and three, but the Fantasie isn't on either. The first volume got a good review from Gramophone so I bought it and it's one of my favorite Schumann piano recordings. I haven't heard Rubinstein do Schumann but I'm not a fan of everything he's done, although some of his Chopin is terrific and his Beethoven sonatas are great too.
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