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Was a great question; got disappointing answers

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Feanor

(A)

In Reply to: Re: Recommend 5 top classical recordings posted by gunnar on April 2, 2007 at 20:03:07:

Of course there were quite a few good suggestions but I was very disappointed with the "moldy oldy" responses, at least given your request for "superb sounding, well played" (versus "superbly played, good sounding" I presume).
Some people might consider them "safe", non-reputation threatening answers. There were plenty of exceptions but the sound quality of most of that ancient stuff is abysmal. (MONO indeed! Get a life!!)
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config

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I have to differ as well; I used to be just as ignorant - jdaniel 21:59:01 04/03/07 (4)
Feanor writes:
"(MONO indeed! Get a life!!)"
Your ignorance, (I mean this specifically, no disrespect), is totally understandable, but it would be shameful to paint early recordings with such broad brush-strokes. Some mono recordings, esp. on the Westminster label involving chamber music, are so uncannily real that I use them to demo my system right along with the latest recordings. Not to mention the Furtwangler Tristan and the Karajan Hansel, both on EMI. They blew all my ideas about mono out of the water.
- I've listened to clock radio for years - Feanor 09:51:11 04/04/07 (3)
  So I'm not totally ignorant of mono, right?
  My point would be that there are today sufficient very fine performances that are wonderfully recorded, that there is little reason for deny oneself good sound for performance' sake.
  To hear some people talk you would suppose that current conductors and performers are, in general, inferior to those of the 'fifties and before. This is humbug. Perhaps for this or that specific piece of music, a performace from the era is still the greatest, (in the subjective judgement of many), but not by much I'd submit, and it is not true in general.
  
  Bill Bailey
  ___________________________________________
  See my stereo config
  - I've listened to my younger brother fart and belch at the same time - jdaniel 13:32:37 04/04/07 (0)
    so I'm not totally ignorant of stereo, right?
    There's good and bad from every era. With regard to conductors, and even imprinting on Brahms and Beethoven with the usual '80's suspects: Karajan, Abaddo, Rattle, Barenboim, etc. I can tell you that in most cases Furtwangler and Walter--to name two from a distant era--blow the rest away.
    That said, I wouldn't give up Dutoit's "modern" Ravel cycle for just about anyone from the past.
    Case by case basis....
  - There is little reason to deny oneself the greatest performance for sound's sake. - markrohr 12:16:15 04/04/07 (0)
    Why watch black & white movies? The remakes are in color!
  - Re: I've listened to clock radio for years - Jim Willis 11:19:11 04/04/07 (0)
    > > My point would be that there are today sufficient very fine performances that are wonderfully recorded, that there is little reason for deny oneself good sound for performance' sake. < <
    The converse of this is that one is deliberately avoiding what are arguably the best performances to get a modest improvement in sound quality.
    > > To hear some people talk you would suppose that current conductors and performers are, in general, inferior to those of the 'fifties and before. This is humbug. Perhaps for this or that specific piece of music, a performace from the era is still the greatest, (in the subjective judgement of many), but not by much I'd submit, and it is not true in general. < <
    Nobody said it was true in general.
I beg to differ - docw 17:37:25 04/03/07 (3)
I think the older masters are far from moldy. It is just what you're interested in, and how far in depth. I picked up an old Columbia 2 eye of Bruno Walter rehearsing the Beethoven 5th with the Columbia Symphony. The sound is raw and close, almost like a Mercury Living Presence Dorati record. But it is oh so real.
I then got out my 6 eye Columbia Beethoven 5th, presumably the recorded performance after this rehearsal. Disappointed. No fire and sound is as if one filtered it through some softening effx on a mixer.
This listening experience reminded me of the Ansermet New Philharmonia rehearsal of the Stravinsky Firebird. Outstanding, better than the final record imo.
Your disappointment suggests that we should focus on newer recordings, but someone who loved Beethoven or Bruno Walter would have totally missed the fun I had trying out my $1 purchase last night.
In general, the posters answered that the most definitive performances were older, and I agree. But the OP asked for both good sound and performance, immediately disqualifying a lot of the recommended stuff (Furtwangler!). And he wanted "top 5." Impossible, although you may be able to compile a list of one's personal favorites.
- Re: I beg to differ - Brian Cheney 20:55:05 04/03/07 (2)
  Actually, there is plenty of good-sounding Furtwaengler material.
  DG issued at least two box sets of wartime Magnetophon tapes which, with the exception of some overload and blasting in the climaxes, is very modern-sounding, albeit mono. There is a 1954 VPO "Moldau" that captures some of the finest orchestral playing on record (and a majesterial interpretation) quite vividly, in a first-class CD transfer.
  Hear it and be mesmerized.
  - Re: I beg to differ - Jim Willis 09:18:08 04/04/07 (0)
    > > Hear it and be mesmerized. < <
    Yeah. I guess this is the whole point, no? When I think "great sounding and well played" I think what recorded performances really transport me. I've given up on recording quality as a mesmerizing factor - rather, as it is reproduced on my equipment a recording should not substantially detract from the performance. Mono doesn't bother me, nor does hiss, noise and (modest) overload from most 30s and 40s recordings. In fact, early in my audiophilia I sought out performances significantly on the basis of recording quality. This was a mistake. It's the performance that matters.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm delighted when I can find a well recorded brilliant performance.
    Thanks for the Moldau rec - just ordered it.
  - I am not knocking Furtwangler - docw 08:54:16 04/04/07 (0)
    nor his material. I covet, for instance, our LP's of his Beethoven 9th Bayreuth (although earlier BPO is supposedly even better), much of his other Beethoven, his Hadyn 88/Schumann 4th DG or even Heliodor, his Menuhin Beethoven VC, etc. and so on. But, the OP asked for good or better sound and performances and "top 5."
    Your standard of sound is not what he asked for. I don't care about lousy or aged sound with great music, either. The CD's of 30's and 40's material are difficult to listen to but otherwise from 40's on I can usually enjoy. So I agree with you and thanks for the tips.

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