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I just ordered the Klemperor, EMI 1967 (Baker, Prey, Getta, et al). Any good? I've never been disappointed in any of Klemp's performances on disc. Normally, I prefer faster tempi, but the depth and passion of his work reels me in every time.
Follow Ups:
Very nice sound, not my taste in interpretation of Bach even though I'm a big fan of Klemperer in general. I second the Richter and also would recommend Corboz on MHS, which I believe was originally on Erato.Dave
[Excerpt]Now three decades old, this extraordinary performance remains unchallenged as the recording of choice for those who want a "modern" reading of the work that is at the same time mindful of stylistic issues. Richter's charismatic, passionate, incisive, and pulse quireading is the logical extension of the Ramin approach, but it is more polished, less rough hewn. This vividly recorded account remains the paradigm against which all "modern instrument" performances of the Mass in B Minor must be measured.
[This article appeared in 1989.]
ugly sounding / bloody awful IMO, I also note that the other version is also widely reviewed as having THE SAME problems - 'Weaknesses among the soloists'!And this issue for me smashed the needed gravitas.
WarmestTimbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio ScroungerAnd gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
the proper use of "paradigm". Bravo, sir, bravo! Kudos for helping to stem the tide of Philistines (sp? too lazy to get out the dictionary) attempting to destroy the language (and yes, I recognize the natural progression of the language). I refer to its attempted destruction, conscious or unconscious.
I am just curious which uses of 'paradigm' you are upset about. Is it the use that Thomas Kuhn made of the term in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, or are you talking about the forms that the term, (along with 'paradigm shift') has taken as it has seeped into pop culture? Which ones specifically bug you? Which ones seem to be paradigms of cultural decay?
earns you twenty points, along with your excellent use of paradigm in your final sentence. I seem to recall one source noting that paradigm being used in a scientific work started its decline, though some will insist that it was merely a shift. And yes, the forms it has taken in pop culture offend my Websterian sensibilities.No, I don't object to the natural evolution of the language. What I object to is this modern penchant for trying to impress others with one's use of words, the worst kind intellectual pretension. The ruin of "paradigm" illustrates this, along with the abuse "parameter" has taken. Because a couple of decades ago some idiot thought "parameter" sounded like a fancy version of "perimeter", the language and general intellectual atmosphere in the U.S. is now much the poorer.
This current trend of "language by fad", driven by arrogant ignorance, is tiresome and offensive in its own mindless way. There is nothing wrong with clear, simple English. If it was good enough for E.B. White, Hemingway, et al, why isn't it good enough for the rest of us mortals? That isn't meant as a challenge to your post, merely an observation.
The one that bugs me the most is the misuse of the phrase, "That begs the question why..." when what is really meant is "that raises the question..." You hear it from pundits and TV journalists all the time. Apparently "begging the question" sounds more impressive and erudite, but of course question begging is the informal logical fallacy of arguing in a circle.
Have you heard "meta" as a word (rather than a mere prefix) yet?
meta as a word? Is there no end to the corruption? Thanks for the warning. "Back in the day" (keep all firearms and little children out of my reach) such things did not occur, not in such great numbers, at least.And question begging will now join my list. You understand my linguistic distress perfectly. Of course, the current trend of smug, ignorant pseudo-erudition raises the question as to whether I will end up being able to stand listening to anyone. Perhaps a silent retreat to the classics will be the only option one day. Thank heavens audio gear doesn't reflect the grammatical habits of its creators.
One should also note M. Towe (sorry i I don't knpow the gender of the author) has a quite interesting discussion of other recordings, giving high (and deserving) praise to both Klemperer, Shaw and Rifkin. From the web site quoted by Clark, I learned that Shaw recorded it first in 1947, on 78s, apparetnly one of the last big recording projects on 78s. Also, in that 1947 recording, the instrumentalists were of a high caliber, for example Oscar Shumsky playing violin. It reminds me of the famous Scherchen recording of the St. Matthew passion, which featured Walter Barylli on violin.
I lack the discipline to be expert on this piece, when I have listened to it, my choices have been Klemperer or Shaw.
I would certainly agree with the wording of the captioned review if applied to the Richter St.Matthew's (DFD's "Mache dich mein Herze rein" is one of the high points of recorded music ever).But for Richter's B-minor, however great, I am doubtful
L.
I like Shaw, Richter and Klemperer...But the new recording by Jos van Veldhoven - which is totally HIP - is my new favorite.
It is scaled down Bach, so I miss the plush comfort of the large chorus, but there is a major gain in the clarity of parts. Plus a fleet reading, which one would expect, but a studied one as well, I think that Veldhoven is exploring a broader interpretive pallet that in previous HIP recordings that I've heard. The work breathes and is not straitjacketed by an inflexible "bouncy" rhythm.
I'm also happy that the soloists didn't just drop in from the opera house.
Good packaging, maybe too much art?I do want to hear Suzuki, I think I might find that also to my tastes, but I have not seen it to buy it.
Gregg
Another favorite of mine is Junghänel, Cantus Cölln on Harmonia Mundi (France).This is again a SACD Hybrid with small scale resources for both voices and instruments. I know this has been attempted for much of the Bach choral output, with mixed results.
To me, for the B-minor mass, this is a sort of addition: once you discover how it works with small ensembles, recordings with conventional forces become inevitably clumsy.
L.
...my personal faves are Gardiner and Shaw. Very different performances from each other, one HIP one not, but each very fine in its own way. The strengths of these two, however are the same: the superb choral singing which (natch) hits all the right notes with this ex-choral singer. These are two supreme choral conductors IMO. I confess to being picky about my Bach choral performances - I don't care how good the soloists are if the chorus isn't nimble I'm done.Shaw's soprano, the silvery tones Sylvia McNair, is back in Indiana at IU onfaculty - hope she will do some recitals soon (she has been recovering from cancer).
That said, Baker can seldom do any wrong IMO. However, it's been 20 years since I heard the revered Klemperer. I used to prefer him later works and didn't cotton on to this conducting performance at the time.
I'm sure others will disagree.
Report back with your impressions when the disc arrives..
Thanks, I will.
(nt)
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