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Calling Dr. Brahms or anyone who can advise:I have given up waiting for a truly excellent SACD or DVD-A Brahms Symphonies set. For once, I'll have to resort to plain CDs. I am considering the following:
Brahms: The Symphonies / Solti, Chicago Symphony Orchestra (London/Decca Catalog #: 430799)
Could I do better? If so, your recommendation please.
Regards,
--dsdreamer
Follow Ups:
Sorry these two are MONO but best in my opinion for overall sets.Jochum, BPO DG (DG Originals, avail USA, and elsewhere, cheaper in UK than USA) 2 CD's
Walter NYPO Sony UK and USA. In UK, 2CD's for price of one CD. Avail online at UK retailers. Sold at higher prices in USA various labels.
I have listened to a lot of sets. Many good ones including Solti CSO, Bohm VPO, and Kertesz VPO. There are individual performances that are great IMO: #1 Ozawa BSO DG Japan, Levine RCA -- Out of print?. #2 Beecham RPO, #4 Kleiber VPO, and Reiner on Chesky.
Thanks
Bill
I recently picked up the first release (CD, also on SACD and DVD-A) in a series of Alsop conducting Brahms on Naxos. Living in Colorado, its hard to pass on our local heroine. Just curious as to where the 'experts' would place this recording, if you've had a chance to hear it yet.
...Willem Mengelberg?Not available as a set, actually, but he has all of them in the catalog. For #2, I recommend the 1939; for #4, the 1938. The other two have only a single recording each.
Otherwise, here ya go:
#1 Scherchen
Furtwaengler (1952 live)
Celibidache (Milan)#2 Fritz Busch
Beecham
Furtwaengler (VPO, 1945)#3 Clemens Krauss (GREAT!!)
Mitropoulos (NYP, 1952)#4 Fritz Busch (except Mvt. II)
Charles Munch (except Mvt. I)Do not take any of the above as disparaging Toscanini (Philharmonia) of the mono Walter.
clark
Solti's set is very good, if not the most profound reading of the pieces. I doubt you would be disappointed. The orchestral playing is terrific, and Solti gives vigorous readings of all four symphs. The only drawback is that he tends to play these pieces as if they were orchestral showpieces, which works pretty well given the great orchestra he has, but which tends to miss some of the emotional impact you get with some others. Sound is very good.Some others you may want to consider:
Klemperer on EMI is another classic set. Klemps is much slower than Solti, less dynamic, but really gets the "big picture": listening to his Brahms, you'll really hear the structure, inner voices and overall shape of the piece.
Walter/CSO: Though I much prefer the earlier mono cycle with the NYPO, there's a lot to be said for this stereo set. Bruno always conducted a great Brahms 1. The rest of the set is good, but IMO suffers in comparison with the more vigorous and better-played NYPO. (That one is tough to find on CD: you can order from Europe.)
Furtwangler and Toscanini: If you're interested in an intense, ultra-romantic reading and don't care too much about sonics, then you MUST get Furtwangler's set of live performances on Music & Arts. These blow his studio EMI versions out of the water, IMO. Amazing performances, with huge variations in tempo, broad dynamics, etc. The occasionally sloppy playing is more than offest by the great emotional intensity. On the other end of the interpretive spectrum is Toscanini, who offers swift tempos, razor-sharp playing, and a tight, lyrical interpretation. There are numerous performances out there, but you might as well start with the RCA versions from the early '50s. As with the Furtwangler, sonics are just acceptable, but the performances are amazing. I could not live without either of these sets.
If you can't stomach the poor sound of the Furt and Toscanini, you could consider sets by a couple of their disciples. Jochum's recordings have many of the virtues of Furtwangler, in much better sound. (They're better played, too.) He did two sets, a mono one on DG and a stereo on EMI. I prefer the mono, which actually sounds really good. If you like the vigorous, whip-crack precision of Toscanini but want better sound, consider Szell/Cleveland.
If you MUST have digital sound, consider Abbado, but be forewarned: no one else seems to think as highly of his Brahms as I do! I find his Brahms to be well-paced, impeccably played (by the BPO), well-recorded, and quite exciting. But no one else ever mentions this set so I may be out to lunch here.
Needless to say, there are TONS of individual performances to consider, but I've written too much already....
I would add only one other set to your list, the one by James Levine and the Chicago from the mid to late '70s, on (4) RCA LPs. It's a crime that this hasn't been re-released on CD--maybe BMG will wake up and realize what a gem they have in their catalog.Much of the same virtues as Toscanni and Szell, but perhaps even more deeply felt. The orchestral playing is even better than on the Solti set, with prominant brass, especially the all-important TRUMPET PARTS, which are often de-emphasized by other conductors.
The Symphony No.1 in this set is especially winning, probably because it was recorded under pressure, during the time "left over" from Levine's Mahler Third sessions. As I understand it, every movement was done in one complete take, with only minor patches for wrong notes.
... but haven't heard the others. BMG does need to get their stuff together on his catalogue.
I’m glad to share my prejudices and recommend some favorites.First general observation: I’m basing my recommendations on the assumption that you’re basically interested in modern sound (i.e. stereo, not mono or historic).
Second general observation: For whatever reason, the digital era has not seen a lot of distinguished recordings of the Brahms symphonies. The better sets (“better” meaning the ones I like, of course!) date from the analog era. The digital sets tend to suffer from glassy sonics and bland interpretations.
Third general observation: We’re talking complete sets here. “Complete sets” usually mean the four symphonies, the two overtures (Tragic, Academic Festival), and the “Haydn” Variations. There are worthy recordings of individual symphonies from conductors who never got around to a complete cycle (best example: Fritz Reiner’s Third Symphony on RCA and Fourth Symphony on Chesky), but I’ll stick to sets here.
Fourth general observation: I freely admit that these recommendations reflect my own biases. Others may disagree (gently or violently) with my opinions, but that’s fine--hey, that’s what makes the field of music such a rich endeavor.
Now, on to the recommendations. Personally, I would not get the Solti set. The engineering is not up to Decca’s best standards, and Solti seems to be trying desperately to put a distinctive stamp on this repertoire--and failing to do so. Not a prime choice. I would also avoid von Karajan in Brahms. There is undeniable pleasure to be had from hearing the Berlin Philharmonic play this music so beautifully, but von Karajan never digs in. It’s wax fruit.
Two of the world’s great orchestras have repeatedly given us worthy Brahms cycles: Cleveland and Vienna. All of the Cleveland cycles are worthwhile, but to me the Szell set on Sony is the most satisfying. (And, it’s inexpensive and readily available.) Maazel/Cleveland is a sleeper: this is the set that Decca should give wide currency, not Solti/Chicago. The sound is superb; the playing is extraordinary; and Maazel is surprisingly effective. Alas--the set is hard to track down. I think it’s currently available on the Scribendum label in Europe. Believe me, it’s worth seeking out. The von Dohnanyi/Cleveland set on Teldec is pretty good, but suffers from edgy early-digital sound. (Ironically, the 40-year-old Szell sounds better.)
Vienna has an unparalleled pedigree in this music. Say what you will, it has to mean something when a member of the Vienna Philharmonic can glance up from the stage and see the box where Brahms sat. Two sets from Vienna claim the collector’s attention: Bohm on DG and Kertesz on Decca/London. (Bernstein recorded a cycle in Vienna as well, but this would not be a good first choice. Bernstein’s Brahms is just that--he never lets you forget that this is BERNSTEIN’s Brahms.) Kertesz is out of print but can be tracked down with a little bit of digging; the sound is great and the performances are unfailingly fresh. Bohm is easy to find and fairly well recorded. The tempos are on the slow side, but the overall effect is quite compelling--titanic Brahms rather than mercurial Brahms.
Among other sets, Bruno Walter on Sony is excellent--warm and affectionate (but the music never lacks power when it’s called for). The sound is generally quite good and the discs are readily available. Walter’s Fourth is also available as a Sony SA-CD; the sound is incredibly good. If you absolutely must have digital sound, I would say--and here I think I’m definitely stating a minority opinion--that Muti/Philadelphia is the best of a fairly undistinguished lot. Muti’s set is currently available in Universal Classic’s bargain-priced Trio series.
If I haven’t already bored you to tears, here’s one final recommendation: IMO, your first complete set of Brahms symphonies should involve a full-sized symphony orchestra, not a chamber orchestra. Mackerras on Telarc and Berglund on Ondine might be interesting supplements to any of the sets mentioned above, but I wouldn’t make them a first choice. These are both fine conductors and the reduced orchestras yield some interesting balances, but they simply cannot bring the required weight and power to the big climaxes, especially in the First and Fourth symphonies. Just my opinion, you understand.
Summary:
Great Brahms, easy to find: Szell (Sony), Walter (Sony), Bohm (DG)
Great Brahms, harder to find: Kertesz (London/Decca), Maazel (Scribendum)
Whatever set you choose, I know you will enjoy your exploration of these supreme masterpieces. Happy listening!
....and to the other extensive replies to my query. I have a lot of happy exploration to do, it seems. These pointers really help.--dsdreamer.
The two phenomena converged just in time for us to be interested no longer in sampling new CD issues.clark
d
Greatest Brahms, easy to find:
#1 Toscanini NBC (1951) RCA
#2 Walter NYPO (1953) EMI Great Conductors
#3 Toscanini Philharmonia (1952) EMI Testament live
#4 Toscanini NBC (1951) RCA
Berglund's Brahms
I could be wrong, but I cannot imagine Solti/Chicago sounding right with Brahms...Unless sound is a real issue, I'd have to recommend Bruno Walter for the Brahms Symphonies, as a whole. Individual symphonies I can recommend other conductors, but Walter is the choice if you want the entire set.
Sony reissues sound better than the Columbias?
I have the Sony set, having given the CBS set to the library. The Sony reissues sound very good. I took some of the CBS recordings out of the library as I had not heard them on my current, more accurate speakers, and they do sound different, more gutsy, less smooth on the strings than the Sony reissue, but still quite good. I could live with either but I think I was right to keep the Sony reissues.I do rather like the Brahms 4th with Reiner and the Royal Philharmonic reissued on Chesky, however.
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