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Luxman and original Quads a good combo?

174.27.208.88

I wonder how this would work with a pair of Quad 57's?

'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/Luxman-L-505uXII- (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - JimL 20:21:01 08/28/21 (0)
You may want to look back at this old Planar Asylum thread:

https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/10/102725.html

Check out the posts by robin@wyattmail.com (Robyatt Audio). He uses Quad 57s as his reference loudspeakers, tried out about 2 dozen amps back then. At that time (2006), he found the ASR Emitters to be best, but modified Rogue Atlas with EH KT90s (subsequently brought out as the Magnum version) to be second best, even compared to more expensive amps such as ARC V70, Air Tight ATM211, Transcendent OTL, Berning ZH270, etc. Didn't try any Luxmans though.

Here is more info from a 6moons article:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour7/roadtour3again.html

Since then he has moved on, first to the Miyajima 2010 OTL, and most recently to the Butler Audio Monads. He has used his Quads at audio show demos and consistently had best 10 in show ratings, such as:

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/caf-2019-seven-rooms-of-distinction/

Of course,
RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - triamp 16:11:43 08/16/21 (0)
I'm sure this amp would be stable into the ESL-57's weird load. Almost any modern solid state amp of any quality is OK with the ESL. Wayne Piquet of Quads Unlimited found great success with NAD "monitor series" power amps from the 1980's, and he is considered to be one of the foremost Quad ESL experts.

**HOWEVER**

The Luxman amp you are looking at has A LOT of power. Originally it was suggested not to use the Quad ESL with anything over 15 watts. It is very easy to artc / destroy a tweeter panel in the Quad ESL unless you have an aftermarket zener protection circuit installed.

Science doesn't care what you believe.
RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - BDP24 18:58:05 08/11/21 (0)
The most basic problem of using just about all solid state amps with the ESL is that ss amplifier output power into varying loads makes them inappropriate for use with the that loudspeaker.
The reason? The ESL's impedance dips to 50 ohms below 100Hz, and to 2 ohms above 5kHz. The ESL/ss amp combo often results in an overly bright, bass-shy frequency response. The ESL in general sounds better with a tube amp.
In contrast, Maggies have a relatively even impedance curve (4 ohms over much of the spectrum, though dipping to 3 ohms at some frequencies), so prefer a solid state amp (or a tube amp with a low output impedance). The Eminent Technology LFT-8b---like Maggies a magnetic-planar design---also has a relatively flat curve, but at the higher value of 8 ohms. The panel containing the m-p drivers (the LFT has a sealed box woofer for frequencies 180Hz down) by itself presents an 11 ohm load to an amplifier, so is a better candidate than Maggies for use with most tube amps.

Edits: 08/11/21 08/11/21
RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - Jonesy 15:59:44 08/03/21 (0)
You may have already found all the favorable reviews of the Luxman with many of the other Quad ESL models. They even do audio booths together at shows. But unfortunately nothing with the 57's.

Jonesy

"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - 6bq5 19:14:22 08/02/21 (16)
I would not-
the PS does not allow the power to do that ideal situation of doubling as the impedance halves - and with Quad '57s dipping to 2 Ohms - this amp might not be happy...
Happy Listening
- Neither do my VTL MB-450s - E-Stat 15:00:39 08/04/21 (0)
  but they drive the heck out of Sound Lab U-1PX stats which also possess low impedance at the top (where the amount of energy is pretty low).
  
  They do, however, have sizable 250 joule power supplies each.
- A couple of things to bear in mind - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 12:24:19 08/03/21 (2)
  1. You hardly ever/probably never play at full power.
  2. Music does not have so much energy up in the treble region where the impedance is lowest so you don't need to supply too much power at the 2 Ohm frequency.
  
  Linked below are some measurements I did of my 57's in the time domain - looking for large coincident voltage and current swings into the speaker.
  This post was made after a full Electrostatic Solutions refurb, except that I fitted all the parts but I found out later that I had too much HT step-up so the speakers were likely to be more sensitive than ideal. The link also links to a much earlier post where I did the same thing when the speakers were stock (but old). Both experiments concluded that at the loudest volume I would ever listen, and with the worst case CD in my collection, the lowest impedance is 4 - 5 ohms.
  
  ps. the oscilloscope picture has disappeared from the linked post so I reattach it above.
  - https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=240572&h (Open in New Window)
  - RE: A couple of things to bear in mind - rivervalley817 12:55:52 08/03/21 (1)
    so a well implemented power supply determines what the rest of an amps technology and topology can actually deliver in dynamics no matter the speaker!
    
    very worthwhile test and pertinent thread contribution
    
    so, do you think that Luxman would do a nice job? I think it would
    
    regards,
    - RE: A couple of things to bear in mind - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 15:14:00 08/03/21 (0)
      From the spec., the Luxman has at least 40V peak output swing (100W into 8 Ohms), which is enough to drive 57 panels to arc if they are not protected by clamp boards. I don't have enough experience with other amps to know if that is the best sounding for the money.
      
      13DoW
- RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - rivervalley817 20:10:34 08/02/21 (11)
  I don't think I've ever seen measurements of any amp that could double power into lower ohms ...
  
  I think the average RMS output voltage staying close to optimal output into lower ohms might be a better indicator
  
  a good amp shouldn't choke on dips to 2 ohms as long as it's not continuous
  
  regards,
  - RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - G Squared 12:01:31 08/03/21 (1)
    We could be mixing apples (ratings) and measurements.
    If I want to "rate as doubling down" and my max measured RMS at rated distortion is with an 8 ohm load is 200, but I rate it 150 W at 8 ohms - as long as I can do 300 W into 4 ohms - I double down. If manufacturers perceive this as a more sought after attribute by consumers, then they may chose to rate down the 8 ohm RMS to 150 W and "double down."
    Doubling max measured RMS at rated distortion may be different. I think the bench data I have from the refurb at the factory of my Crown DC 300A was almost a measured double down. It could almost drive a short circuit.
    
    Gsquared
    
    Edits: 08/03/21
    - RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - rivervalley817 12:27:56 08/03/21 (0)
      yes ... that's my point but you've articulated it a bit more concisely
      
      as well as including the distortion factor
      
      I'll bet that Luxman would do a fine job or even one of Parasound's higher wattage units for about half the ticket price ... possibly even some of the newer more potent ClassD stuff that's to be had ... ClassD isn't a dirty word to me
      
      *sigh* ... I miss my old listening space as these days I can only sit about 10 feet away with a wall at my back so none of this is relevant to my situation ... or checkbook for that matter!
      
      with regards,
  - B&K Sonata monoblocks - jimbill 11:23:05 08/03/21 (4)
    When I bought them used years ago, I had to have one repaired (at the seller's expense). When it was put on the bench it doubled at 4 ohms and almost doubled at 2 ohms.
    - RE: B&K Sonata monoblocks - rivervalley817 12:15:47 08/03/21 (3)
      OK ... there's one I guess
      
      I seem to have a foggy memory of your mentioning those quite a while ago back when I just read at AA rather than post
      
      do you still have them?
      
      regards,
      - Here's two more - E-Stat 14:58:21 08/04/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: B&K Sonata monoblocks posted by rivervalley817 on August 03, 2021 at 12:15:47
        
        courtesy of Stereophile:
        
        Parasound JC-1
        
        Pass Labs XA-200
        
        RE: Here's two more - rivervalley817 18:10:07 08/04/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Here's two more posted by E-Stat on August 04, 2021 at 14:58:21
        
        I should probably reevaluate ...
        
        I do see a pattern emerging in that so far all the examples are monoblocks
        
        maybe those marketing caveats should be confined to integrated amps?
        
        anyway, thanks for the reply, food for thought
        
        too bad there's no rich uncles left naming me in their wills!
      - Yes I do - jimbill 23:49:56 08/03/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: B&K Sonata monoblocks posted by rivervalley817 on August 03, 2021 at 12:15:47
        
        and I leave them on all the time. Still working perfectly.
        
        Thanks for asking!
  - RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - emailtim 06:42:07 08/03/21 (3)
    "... I don't think I've ever seen measurements of any amp that could double power into lower ohms ... "
    Check out some Mark Levinson models. These values are spec'd as "minimum continuous".
    ML 33, 300/600/1200/2400 into 8/4/2/1 Ohms
    ML 33H, 150/300/600 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #336, 350/700/1400 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #335, 250/500/1000 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #334, 125/250/500 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #333, 300/600/1200 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #332, 200/400/800 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    ML #331, 100/300/600 into 8/4/2 Ohms
    Now you have.
    Might want to look at Krell also:
    Krell KSA-300S, 300/600/1200/2400 into 8/4/2/1 Ohms
    Krell KSA-250, 250/500/1000/2000 into 8/4/2/1 Ohms
    Krell KSA-200S, 200/400/800/1600 into 8/4/2/1 Ohms
    Krell KSA-100, 100/200/400/800 into 8/4/2/1 Ohms
    I am sure there are more than just ML and Krell.
    
    Edits: 08/03/21 08/03/21
    - RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - rivervalley817 12:05:04 08/03/21 (2)
      well, I'll be! Hi Tim,
      
      I'm just skeptical that those units are doing this into a dynamic 'R' load
      
      most, if not all of the mfg's measure into a static load plus derate the output at 8ohms so they can claim doubling into half that
      
      there was a lot of chatter on forums about that marketing ploy a few years back ... but if you've seen the measurements up close and personal I'll not quibble about it ... I'm of the school of thought that a fairly consistent voltage output across dynamic loads better reflects an amps ability to drive difficult speaker configurations without 'strain' ... they pull this off in auto sound and a few pro products but as far as fidelity goes? dynamics seem to suffer for some reason ... maybe it's the utilization of monster capacitance so audio quality is strapped to cap quality ... there's certainly ongoing debates about that thorn on the rose
      
      thanks for the reply, quite a surprise! hope you and yours are well
      - RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - emailtim 13:07:05 08/03/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? posted by rivervalley817 on August 03, 2021 at 12:05:04
        
        "... I'm just skeptical that those units are doing this into a dynamic 'R' load ..."
        Since you don't trust the manufacturers, Stereophile tests, etc. all showing the same results as well as the steel arc welding test with the ML #20 I don't know what to tell you.
        I doubt you trust my results either, but here goes. Personally, I have had a ML #336 running Maggies for well over a decade including 1.6, 3.6 and 20.1. You can always make the argument that Maggies are not "dynamic" speakers to skirt the issue, but I have never heard them better in a dealership. Closest I heard was 20.1's at the now defunct Stereo Design in San Diego being driven by ML 33H monoblocks. They also did quite nice on Wilson Audio Sashas and Revel Salons which you might call dynamic speakers.
        I have had Pinius, Jeffrey Rowland Design Group, various digital amps, MagTech, Luxman and a few others in the mix. The ML has always been a very consistent powerhouse and not suffered from the clipping and power shortages that I have witnessed with other amps in the rotation.
        
        Edits: 08/03/21
        
        RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? - rivervalley817 13:15:12 08/03/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Luxman and original Quads a good combo? posted by emailtim on August 03, 2021 at 13:07:05
        
        nope, I said that if you saw it that I'll believe it Tim, no snark at all
        
        especially if a dynamic load was being measured
        
        plus, you've lived with the various set ups
        
        I do try and keep an open mind
        
        but yeah, I AM skeptical of manufacturer claims
        
        I think that everyone should be

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