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Magnepans and speaker cables again

216.228.191.161

A thread below inquired about best speaker cables for 20.7s. Well, I
don.t have 20.7s, I have LRSes, and I just changed my speaker cables
from Analysis Plus Clear Oval (14 awg stranded) to Anticables 2.1 (12 awg
solid) and even with only 3 or 4 hours playing time, the improvement
brought by the Anticables is pronounced. Manufacturer recommends 100 hours
of break in time. I'm most anxious to hear what things sound like in a
few weeks. With the Anticables, small details are much more apparent,
the overall SQ is tighter and less smeared, and stringed instruments just
seem to pop. I'm very happy. And, the price was very reasonable.
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein

Follow Ups:

RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - neolith 15:25:43 06/20/21 (1)
I used Anticables for quite awhile. I then changed my amplifiers (biamp) and was able to use balance cables. When I got the 3.7i, I no longer needed the active XO and went back to unbalanced cables. Being a dyed-in-the-wool cheapskate, I decided to try 16 AWG magnet wire. The cost was about $12 for a 8 oz spool (~63') which was enough for 2 sets of 15' cables. I do not terminate but just use bare wire and clean with Deoxit every few months. I never compared 12 AWG to 16 AWG but I was totally happy with the DIY.
I don't understand those guys who spend 3 or 4 figures on cables. For $12 you can decide for yourself.

I married the perfect woman - the downside is that everything that goes wrong is my fault.
- Remember... - RickeyM 08:19:38 06/21/21 (0)
  Remember the RatShack magwire challenge?
Cats who know - farfetched 15:07:56 06/19/21 (0)
how to chew through cables used to be pets of mine. They ruined my Goertz MI 1's.

Those cats were full of spite and discontent.

So I did some pertinent research, and bought a setup using Harmonic Tech truthlinks and pro-9's. That's PVC in those bad boys. You ain't gonna be able to chew through that, you bastards.

/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
I use DH Labs T-14 cables in a shotgun configuration. - MaggiesAndCats 12:38:10 06/19/21 (0)
Ten foot runs with spade connectors one the amp end and Maggie pins on the speaker end.

I like them a lot but have never tried other cables so I can't offer a comparison.

Regards,

Steve
- DH Labs T-14 speaker cable (Open in New Window)
Welcome to solid core cables... - ABliss 19:42:00 06/17/21 (3)
It's not just the Anticables.
- Examples? - grantv 21:09:28 06/17/21 (2)
  Have you listened to any that you'd like to share results of? Curious...
  - RE: Examples? - ABliss 11:49:20 06/19/21 (0)
    Tara Labs, Audioquest, are all solid core, my first jaw dropping experience with solid core sonic attributes was with a pair of 18g solid core speaker cables that came with Anthony Gallo speakers.
    Now using Audioquest Rocket 88.
  - RE: Examples? - emailtim 23:01:16 06/17/21 (0)
    Anyone try BX cable with a shield drain ?
RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - Swamis Cat 12:58:53 06/17/21 (5)
In comparing Anti cable with other high end cables, my conclusion, and that of everyone else involved in the non-blinded listening test, was that the Anti cables are noticeably brighter with Maggies. Markedly so.

I am not sure if that is more accurate, or better. But it was substantially brighter.

Has anyone else noticed this?
- RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - Green Lantern 16:59:52 06/20/21 (1)
  I used anti-cables many years ago due to their relatively low cost. And although they initially fared well,at some point they began to let me know it was time to move on to other cables.
  - RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - gadio4533 06:30:18 06/21/21 (0)
    +1
- Bright seems to be a pejorative term - Mike K 10:17:31 06/18/21 (1)
  In my experience so far with the Anticables, I haven't noticed any
  "brightness". Of course, "bright" is probably system-dependent.
  Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
  - Bright is just Bright - Swamis Cat 12:21:16 06/18/21 (0)
    I didn't mean it pejoratively. Most of us preferred it on that day in that room, with that music.
    
    Have you then, NOT found anticables to be brighter than most in your system? How would you describe the differences, if any?
- RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - grantv 18:00:59 06/17/21 (0)
  I could see that depending on the amp, the speaker model, source, room treatments, etc.
  With my... all the above, they are a great match.
RE: Magnepans and speaker cables again - gadio4533 11:31:15 06/17/21 (0)
Interesting, I have gunned 1.6s and tried anti cables (2.1) and wasn't satisfied. I was coming from Straight Wire Crescendos. I ultimately went with Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval 8s and will never change.
What length and end connections did you go with? - wgallupe 16:36:47 06/16/21 (1)
For an 8ft length I'm on the fence about choosing level 2.1 or level 3.1
- RE: What length and end connections did you go with? - Mike K 21:00:34 06/16/21 (0)
  10 foot length, bananas on both ends. The cables are marked for
  directionality.
  
  I've no idea if the 3.1 wires will be an improvement over the 2.1 wires.
  If you watch the clearance page on the Anticables website, you can
  sometimes find markdowns on both flavors.
  Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
RE: "small details are much more apparent, the overall SQ is tighter and less smeared" ... - andyr 15:26:04 06/16/21 (15)
You've just summarised the difference between solid-core cables - vs. stranded! :-))

But are you saying that your new Anticables 2.1 are a single 12g wire (to the '+' and '-' spkr terminals)?

Andy
- RE: "small details are much more apparent, the overall SQ is tighter and less smeared" ... - Mike K 21:09:13 06/16/21 (14)
  Yes, that is what I am saying. Check the pics on the website:
  
  https://anticables.com/speaker-wires/2-channel
  
  Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
  - https://anticables.com/speaker-wires/2-channel (Open in New Window)
  - RE: Thanks, Mike ... - andyr 00:08:09 06/17/21 (13)
    Now, Mike ... you have heard for yourself what solid-core does, compared to stranded wire. But there are people with degrees in electrical engineering who - never having heard what solid-core wires do - would say " smearing, through the signal jumping from strand to strand in a stranded cable ... is rubbish "!
    
    Yet you have heard it! :-))
    
    But there's another theory which is pooh-poohed by electrical engineers ... that better sound is obtained when the signal is carried throughout the whole thickness of the metal ("skin effect").
    
    If you believe in the 'goodness' of solid-core vs. stranded ... I suggest you should consider (or at least keep an open mind about!) the advantages of using thin wire - rather than thick. Obviously, the big problem is that you need to use multiple strands of thin wire (individually insulated, to keep it 'solid-core') to make up a much higher guage required by the spkr currents.
    
    If you look at the table in this link,
    https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
    
    ... you can see that the highest frequency that supports full depth transmission ... is just over 4kHz.
    
    Because of this I would certainly use 12g for wires going to Maggie bass panels ... but I would not use it for a cable feeding all the drivers.
    
    I would suggest the following guages are appropriate (note: in my system, I simply use multiple runs of 24g solid-core wire):
    * 22-24g solid-core wire for ribbon wires
    * 16-20g for mids, and
    * 12-14g for bass panels.
    
    If you used spkr cables made from solid-core wires that are constructed from multiple strands of individually insulated (preferably, teflon) 24g wire ... I suggest you will hear better highs than you do currently, with your 12g wire.
    
    Regards,
    Andy
    - RE: Thanks, Mike ... - emailtim 20:30:08 06/18/21 (3)
      Andy,
      
      Have you ever tried CAT5/6 Speaker Cables ?
      - RE: Indeed - that's what I've used for 20 years! ... - andyr 21:48:17 06/18/21 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks, Mike ... posted by emailtim on June 18, 2021 at 20:30:08
        
        But:
        
        1. I use Belden 1595A - which is 'plenum rated' (so the individual solid strands are insulated with teflon not PVC. I strip off the blue PVC jacket.).
        
        2. I don't do the ott braiding which early users popularised. I don't think it's necessary - you simply use as many twisted pairs as you think are required for the current drawn by the driver(s), for the length of the cable, and then you have 3 options for using the strands:
        
        a. use the coloured strand in each twisted pair (tp) for '+ve' and the striped strand for '-ve'. This option gives you the lowest inductance - which is a good thing, in a spkr cable. But it does give the highest capacitance - which can upset some amplifiers if the spkr cable is long).
        
        b. separate all the tps and use all the solid-colour wires for the '+ve' leg ... and all the striped wires for the '-ve' leg. Twist all the strands in '+ve' leg together ... and all the '-ve' strands together - so you end up with two separate cables.
        
        This option gives you the lowest capacitance - which is a good thing for very long spkr cables (like 30' plus!) - but it does produce the highest inductance.
        
        c. use equal numbers of tps for '+ve' and '-ve'. Twist all the pairs together (remembering which pairs you have allocated to '+ve' and which to '-ve'!).
        
        This option is in the middle of the above two, in terms of 'L' and 'C'.
        
        Andy
        
        RE: Indeed - that's what I've used for 20 years! ... - emailtim 23:58:41 06/18/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Indeed - that's what I've used for 20 years! ... posted by andyr on June 18, 2021 at 21:48:17
        
        Thank you for the details.
        
        20 years, about time you give them a HiRez update with some Cat 7e !!! =)
        
        RE: Cat 7e! ... - andyr 17:03:47 06/19/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Indeed - that's what I've used for 20 years! ... posted by emailtim on June 18, 2021 at 23:58:41
        
        AIUI, Tim - Cat 7e is only different to Cat 5e in its twisting ... and possibly is shielded?
        
        So I doubt it would make a sonic difference, as spkr cables. More important, IMO, is to make sure the tps are:
        1. solid core, and
        2. teflon-insulated.
        
        Andy
    - Seems complex to implement - Mike K 08:40:36 06/18/21 (0)
      requires lots of wire, complex frequency division electronics, and lots of
      fiddling. Once I get everything else sorted, I might look into it.
      Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
    - why would that be the case? - DrChaos 18:39:50 06/17/21 (7)
      > that better sound is obtained when the signal is carried throughout the whole thickness of the metal ("skin effect").
      
      What's wrong with electromagnetic fields outside the metal? Cann't you say "hey it will be unimpeded by high density electron Fermi surface?"
      - RE: But you *didn't* ask ... - andyr 19:26:12 06/17/21 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why would that be the case? posted by DrChaos on June 17, 2021 at 18:39:50
        
        " Why would solid-core spkr wires sound better than stranded? "
        
        I'm wondering why.
        
        Andy
        
        RE: But you *didn't* ask ... - BE 18:12:29 06/18/21 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: But you *didn't* ask ... posted by andyr on June 17, 2021 at 19:26:12
        
        Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire. Basically, the signal jumps from strand to strand and because of skin effect, causes all sorts of timing problems. The best way to do this is with multiple 28 gage magnet wire or use whatever your favorite Teflon wire is.
        
        Figure the gage you need and twist the wire (I use a drill) and do the same for the return leg. The wire has low inductance and high capacitance, so be aware. I use it with my Quads and love it.
        
        Bill
        
        So, IS skin effect objectively significant at audio frequencies? nt. - MWE 09:32:04 06/19/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: But you *didn't* ask ... posted by BE on June 18, 2021 at 18:12:29
        
        Nt.
        
        Mark in NC
        "The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
        
        RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... - andyr 18:36:48 06/18/21 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: But you *didn't* ask ... posted by BE on June 18, 2021 at 18:12:29
        
        I am well aware of that, BE (perhaps you didn't read my earlier posts?) - and all my spkr cables use multiple strands of thin wire.
        
        But there are those (for instance the guy who I was responding to, in the post you answered!) who appear to think that the diode effect is nonsense.
        
        In the same way, there are those (measurement-oriented EEs, for instance) who refuse to believe that skin effect can be heard at audio frequencies.
        
        Andy
        
        RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... - Davey 07:41:03 06/19/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... posted by andyr on June 18, 2021 at 18:36:48
        
        Skin effect is a well understood phenomenon Andy.
        Insulting EE's doesn't buoy your position. It just makes you look ignorant.
        
        Dave.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: Fair enough, Dave. nt - andyr 16:56:04 06/19/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... posted by Davey on June 19, 2021 at 07:41:03
        
        .
        
        RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... - BE 18:47:54 06/18/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Diode Effect is the cause of what you hear from stranded wire" ... posted by andyr on June 18, 2021 at 18:36:48
        
        I guess I should have read the entire post more carefully. You said it better than I did.
        
        Bill
Thanks for the post. - grantv 08:03:23 06/16/21 (1)
Reinforces my feelings about the synergy with Magnepan speakers... can't say there isn't better out there, but nothing I tried (not a lot admittedly).
100% agree with all your comments.
- I have long thought - Mike K 12:48:24 06/16/21 (0)
  that solid wire must be superior to stranded wire because you have a
  complex signal involved, and it seems to me that stranded wire would
  break/up or otherwise interfere with the complexity of the signal
  whereas solid would not do so. I think my preconceptions are being borne
  out.
  Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein

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