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Hello you guys, my follow up post!
As it is now clear to me that I have to seriously upgrade the kit behind the 1.7s I am looking into second hand amps here in Holland. The are scarce.
I see some Brystons, still most between 2200 and 3500 euros
I find some very early Krells, from the 1987 era. The can be obtained sub 2000 euro's
I could buy:
a. Krell KSA-50 , just repaired and serviced. Might be just enouhgh juice; 1850 euro
b. Krell KSA-100 MK2, just completly overhauled, 2850 euro's
c. Krell KMA-100 Mk 2, Mono block, of which one has a broken end transistor. 1600 euro + repairs
d. Usher R1.5 150 watts per channel, upgraded parts, 1750 euro
Then i will also have to spend another 1000-1500 on a preamp.
What can you guys recommend, is the KSA-50 enough?
Out of your options thevUsher R1.5 would be my choice.
KSA50, not enough
KSA100 great but price wise Usher is a match.
KMA100 would be great butvI think they will cost you somebto fix.
There was a review of the Usher used with Maggies. It needs a powerful preamp.
Thx Gerry, I have found the review...
The Usher is good, but class D Ncore where better he says...
Magnepan 1.7 review with Usher 1.7.
All the amps will burn through electricity even on idle.
it doubles into 100-150 into 4ohm according to lab measurements but Maggies don't seem to care about lab measurements and will gleefully gobble those up in a heartbeat.
Fine for a small room I guess but larger rooms will rob you of at least 50 of those watts. I had the Krell KSA 200 back in the day and it perform pretty well but I still felt the need for more juice!
My rule of thumb is spend as much as you can for as many watts and current you can lay your hands on-then try and squeeze another 30% of funding for even more wattage.
I also had a D class pair of Bel Canto M300's a while back; at 300w each they performed well. here's a review of them pushing MMGs.
Best wishes, keep us informed please-
Forget used Krell and Bryston. They're really harsh. You won't like them.
Find some good, high powered class D amps and you will be happier than with
Krell or Bryston. I'm using PSAudio M700s with a GCD dac/preamp and that
combo does very with with my LRS.
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
Mike, thx for pointing me to class D. I was follow class D from the beginning as its main promotor is a Dutch based firm/engineer. The famous Hypex and Ncore modules are produced only a few miles north of here... But there MolaMola amp is also in de Devialat/PSaudio pricerange... not something i can afford at the moment.
But second hand, i find a PS Audio Stellar 300s for 1790 euro. But its an import from Japan...
300 watts at 4 ohm looks decent.
Is this one strong enough for the maggies?
For me, you're traveling down the wrong road. Most advice given here is from guy's living in the states. Well intended, but their situation is totally different from here (Holland), they usually have way bigger houses, large living rooms and giant man caves. Over here the houses are smaller, living rooms are smaller, floors, ceilings and walls are thick cement or heavy stone(different acoustics) and man-caves are a rarity.
Whats your situation? how big is the room? are you sitting near-field? how loud do you listen? Is it heavily damped or lively? so many variables to take into account.
I've set up a few Maggie sets here, in a average room with space to breath(the Maggie's, not you) in a near field set up(6 feet away), 60-80W of class A is enough to let those Maggies sing in the 80- 90 db range.
I would never buy anything without a home trial.....NEVER, thats just wild guessing. if you're considering spending 2.5-3K on a amp and another 1-1.5K on a pre, you should shop for new, or second hand from a dealer. Then you have home trials, guarantees, unlimited choice, ask for discount, it's COVID time, dealers are dying to do business, use that advantage! with a 2 hour drive you can visit dozens of high-end dealers here.
OK. Another point of view... from a fellow country man so I should listen...
My livingroom is smallish, tho square. Stone walls(behangen) and a ceiling with a 'span plafond'... on the floor 'laminaat' but with a large carpet. I have had a completely wooden house in my last setup before I moved to Drenthe (bigger room, more US style maybe)
It is kind of a mancave because I don't share it. I've put the speakers 1 meter from the rear wall at least when playing. But one is in a corner. I can't sacrafice all my livingspace for hifi purpuses. My listening volume tends to average at 80 dB as i measured last days with my phone app. Handy!
It has been true in all my maggie experience that if your turn volume up, sound gets way better but not much higher in DB with this amp.
Offcourse you are right in pointing to a dealer with return etc. But I am not able to spend 3-4K on amps. Maybe I should ask Ohm audio in Groningen (nearby for me), they have the 1.7 and many other maggies. Might even be able to listen at home.
Square rooms ain't the best but if thats what it is.........., I would try the 1/3, 2/3 lines set up, usually a good starting point, 1m from the front wall is just not enough, you can always slide them in and out when not listening, close to side walls is no problem.
Less than 3K to spend? thats rough, I would call very dealer that you're willing to drive to and see what amp's you run into, insist on a home trial!
To me, pure class A is unbeatable, and I don't mean Chinese stuff like Usher. Class D's can deliver power, but just don't sing. Considering you're budget, I think you're aiming at a integrated A/B amp with possibly the first 10-15W in class A.
Good luck and happy hunting!
OP, Take the time to listen and audition. Quoted Below from an Audiophile Society Member's group results:
We had an extended comparison at the society between high class solid state amps including Bryston (4B3), Pass, Gryphon. Members agreed 4B3 more than matched the others in resolution, transparency, soundstage and realism and 4B3 had more authority and involvement. The member who organized the test was planning to purchase Pass, he opted for a set of 4B3 to drive his JBL Everest ($40K a pair). He also owns Krell and Levinson, they are gathering dust. 4B3 treble is as good as any transistor amp but bettered by good valve amps. I think the traditional reputation of lively/strong bass/mid at the expense of grainy treble was true for 4B and 4BST but no longer true for 4B3. (End Quote)
As an owner of the 4B3, and after a year of critical listening, I can concur with this society's test results and findings.
McMusicman thank you for your reply.
The 4B3 is new and way above my budget. But I see a 4B SST for a reasonable price for sale in my locality. Would this be a good matching amp?
Listening and audition is only available when buying new from a dealer. As am not able to pay dealer prices I am bound to try out second hand options, where one can only listen to it through other peoples speakers and room...
I have no experience with the 4B2. The cubed series was a major change for Bryston and some of the old "Bright" reviews are based upon experience with the SST & ST. I simply waited and saved for the new / demo model Cubed and got by with an Odyssey Stratos Extreme for a year while I put the money away. I run the Cubed behind a preamp with NOS Melz1578 and KenRad VT231 tubes and the quality of sound with the 1.7 is "otherworldly" as my musician friend likes to opine. With 19 years of warranty still left on the unit, it will be a long time before I need to make any kind of amplification change. A lady whose opinion I greatly respect and is known to visit this forum purchased a brand new set of Magnepan 20.7 and still runs her 4B2 in front of those speakers. As a side Note, my experiment with Class D (2 Nuprime STA9 Mono Blocks in Bridged mode) was a failure and an expensive lesson with Magnepan. For Decades the Magnepan website recommended Class A/B Direct Amplification with Substantial Current. Good Luck. Am not a fan boy so others advise to listen first, and consider service and warranty in your area is spot on.
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