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the 3BST to be exact. A guy was selling one on ebay for $900, I offered $750 and he took it.I'm looking at running each channel through the tweeter/midrange of my MG20s. If I'm satisfied I'm headed in the right direction I'll grab another and bridge both for each channel.
So- am I crazy to try this?
Here's the specs:
Solid State / Tubed Solid State
Power 120 Watts / Channel @ 8 Ω(1)
200 Watts / Channel @ 4 Ω(1)
400 Watts Bridged/Mono @ 8 Ω(1)
Power Bandwidth 1 Hz to over 100 kHz(1)
Slew Rate 60 Volts per microsecond(1)
Total Harmonic Distortion 0.007 %, 20 Hz - 20 kHz @ 120 Watts(1)
Intermodulation Distortion 0.007 %, 20 Hz - 20 kHz @ 120 Watts(1)Currently I'm using two Emotiva UPA-1's rated at 350w @4ohm. It's not that I'm unhappy with the sound, I'm looking at achieving a better sound stage.
My budget is only around $2K so my options are limited. And yeah room treatment is always on the table and that will come along later.
Edits: 11/13/20Follow Ups:
Greenlantern what is tubed solid state? You mention in the specs for the 3BST.
I have been using a 4BST with my 1.6's for last 16 years and have not felt the need to make a change.
not sure, I found those specs on a website I've since forgotten
Along Andyr suggestion. I have the same large Emotiva mono blocks as you. But I have found using the balance mode adds dynamics and smoothness to the speakers. Why not use it try this on the smaller Emotiva's
I already do just that and yes there 'is' smoothness.
Problem with the UPA-1 is the RCA jacks become dislodged from a circuit board inside over time making them useless. Thankfully the balanced inputs are there otherwise they wouldn't work (at least not for me anyway).
This is a known issue with them as noted online.
I never found anything wrong with Bryston amps-way back even in the amp that you are buying. I think it was the preamp many had qualms about. No big deal if you do not like the amp given that the cube series is 5x the price.Greenie you seem to have fun with everything you do hobby wise and we enjoy your enthusiasm .The twenties are worth it.
I'll bet room treatments would make a bigger difference than swapping amps. Just fooling around and hanging blankets in a few spots made a big impression on me.
As you can see from the specs you quoted, GL - if you bridge them, they need to be driving 8 ohms - not 4 ohms! :-((
Andy
thanks for pointing that out Andy, didn't catch that-
Having bought the Bryston - why not keep your UPA-1 monoblocs and actively biamp?
(1x Emotiva on each bass panel and your new stereo 3BST driving mids & ribbons.)
Of course, you would need a 2-way active XO (to replace the external XO box of the 20s) - but this can cheaply and easily be done with a miniDSP 10x10HD ($599).
( Note: you could use a miniDSP 2x4HD but, based on the improvement in a friend's system when he recently replaced two 2x4s with the physically much larger 10x10HD, I believe:
a) there are better-sounding components used in the 10x10HD, and
b) it uses a better power supply.)
We know what the stock XO points are, for an MG-20 (so the miniDSP can be programmed for these) - and the miniDSP 10x10HD gives you the ability to store 4 different configurations ... and swap between them on the fly! So you might find a different XO combo which sounds better. :-))
Andy
I'm currently using a Marchand XM44 external XO.
Now you have me confused! :-((You are already bi-amping ... yet you said you are using two Emotiva UPA-1s ... which are monoblocs?
Andy
Edits: 11/16/20
the two UPA-1's are on the top end (tweet/mid) seen in the far left corner, the other hidden on the rt.I also have the two XPA-1's on the bottom end
The Marchand is in the middle/middle
Edits: 11/16/20 11/16/20
Then I don't think you can do much better than that (in terms of amplifiers). Heaps of grunt on the bass! :-))
I would suspect your current UPA-1s will sound better on the mids & ribbons than the Bryston?
Andy
Not sure, will find out next week when the Brys arrive.
it looks like that would be a bridge too far, load wise.
Cheers,
AuPh
Greeny - I use to own a 3B and don't rightly know how it compares to the newer, but it was dark sounding.
Well built but.....
"so pervasively did they speak and yet they hardly uttered a word of truth"
In what year was it made? If it's over 15 years old, I would recommend replacing the power supply caps. This a Pass X150 (yeah, I should have done some cleaning before taking the photo) that one of our inmates would recognize, if he happens to read this message (hey D!). It's (presumably) beyond its fifteenth year of service, so I removed the old Cornell Dubiliers and installed a fresh set of Mallory computer grade caps. It's been over a year, so I can't remember what they ran, but I think it was around $120 for the set of four (from Digikey) - replaced the binding posts (Cardas, from PartsConnexion) while I had it apart, too. It definitely breathed new life into it - using it to drive my 3.7s right now, and it's all the power I need (sounds splendiferous).
I can't speak about your suggested pairing GL but when auditioning a pair of MG 20.7
in September I heard a great match with the newest "cubed" series. This was the "14" model
with 900 W into 4 ohms.Great control and accurate tonality were my first impressions. Then I noticed slam when needed
but also delicacy and nuance which are adjectives I would previously not have associated with Bryston.Very impressive synergy but it had a black faceplate. The silver version might have sounded
quite different Norman!i could not afford both so the amp stayed behind.
Edits: 11/14/20
thanks, yeah my first impression was of a 20.1 in a dealer's showroom waaaay back when.
They were using all ML stuff along with $20K cables that would make my garden hoses feel inadequate.
The soundstage was just un-freakin' believable, -no matter what CD I played I felt I could've gotten up and literally walked around each performer.
You haven't indicated if this amp has a black or silver faceplate. (I'm assuming both types were manufactured.) IAE if black the amp will sound too dark, and if silver bright and harsh. :)
I'm the original owner of a pair of 7BSTs and a 4BSST (both black). I've used them in all sorts of configurations (including bi-amping) with Tympani 4As for 20+ on the 7BSTs. I still do to this very day. Being satisfied, I haven't been tempted to for trouble by trying out amps from other manufacturers.
it's black, I can paint it grey to get it in-between lol
Hey now.. Dont forget, BLACK AMPS MATTER!! :)
I used a 3Bst to power my 3.5s back in the day, and I found it to be
harsh, dry, and sterile, even with a decent tubed preamp driving them. I
predict you will regret this purchase. I have not heard newer Brystons
so cannot comment.
If you have $2k to spend, look for a pair of used PS Audio M700s. They are
the anti-Bryston amp. I love mine.
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
thanks for the heads up, I'll give them a shot and let everyone know how they fare.I doubt I'll regret the purchase (unless he keeps the money and the amp never arrives lol). I got plans for another system in a different room and if that doesn't work out off they go...others are going for $900 online, I was able to get this one for $750.
thanks for the tip on the PS Audio M700, had I known I would have grabbed a pair but then again there aren't many around (that's here in the U.S.), but yes, I will DEFINITELY keep those in mind.
Edits: 11/14/20 11/14/20
Hi GL,
I understand that Bryston has many fans and a great reputation for their warranty and reliability. Also I've only heard them at shows, never in my own system.
However I always came away from demos (including in Magnepan rooms) feeling something was missing. They were clean and fast but somehow seemed to miss much of the emotion in the music. Said another way, almost sterile sounding.
I've heard your MG 20s and was impressed by them so I look forward to your findings with the Bryston(s). Good luck.
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
Hey you know me- I'll give them a shot and post my thoughts. If it doesn't work out I might place it in another room for those other speakers we discussed recently.
Buckeroo Banzai said it best: "No matter where you go, there you are!"
If your budget were about double that I'd recommend looking into a used Sanders Magtech if one came up for sale, but Brystons have good support and always seemed like one of Wendell's favored amps for Maggies. If you can squeeze enough wattage out of the Bryston to quinch your Maggies.thirst then that amp should be a winner!
Cheers,
AuPh
I've heard nothing but good things from the Magtech but unfortunately they're outta my reach new, and they NEVER pop up on the used market, if they do they're grabbed immediately!
Do let us know your impressions. I'd like to try Bryston in my system one day...
those are up in your neck of the woods aren't they? :)
I'll let you know how it goes-
39 hour drive, I'll be riiiight there. :)
As a very happy owner of a 4B3 and Magnepan 1.7 I think the synergy between these two companies is excellent. Even more so with some KenRad VT231 Tubes in between the DAC & The Bryston. They have come a long way since the ST entries and if you get a chance to buy a used cubed series you will not be disappointed. Cheers.
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