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In Reply to: RE: nope. I do not think I can do the resistors posted by FX35 on October 12, 2020 at 09:39:38
Going off this message from Josh358:
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Follow Ups:
Of course Wendell says "the resistors are designed to be used", he can hardly say "we added resistors, but they were designed not to be used". The question you should ask yourself is, why did they add the possibility to use a resistor? There's no sense in designing a speaker that reproduces as much frequencies as possible and then add resistors causing a loss of information. Resistors fall in the same category as fuses, things that get in the way of a clean, straight signal path.
The resistors are there because they know people will use their speakers in over lively rooms or use mediocre electronics and cables resulting often in unpleasant high frequency reproduction. In a decent(acoustic) room combined with a well balanced system there should be no need for the use of a resistor.
Also, comparing a tweeter level control turned to max with a speaker designed to reproduce the complete range of high frequencies is meaningless.
"Also, comparing a tweeter level control turned to max with a speaker designed to reproduce the complete range of high frequencies is meaningless."
It's not. How else do you think the tweeter controls on other speakers work?
+ = no resistor
0 = moderate resistor
- = more resisting resistor
Come on---at audio frequencies these resistors are purely ohmic devices with virtually no nonlinearity, it is nothing but a level control.
After all the tweeters themselves have that very same ohmic resistance physics because they aren't made out of superconductor!
Adapting crossover and balance to match sensitivity of drivers with appropriately sized resistors is standard practice and there isn't any magical effect on "purity" or some other nonsense. It's just a resistor and changes tweeter level and that's it.
Accounting the reflectivity of the room and balancing the sound power for it is what is important.
Thats the second time you referred to the same sentence, and I already explained the confusion a few posts back......... short memory letting you down?
For the record, I'm no fan of external treble controls or resistors on speaker designs and that has everything to do with "purity", audible or not.
"Also, comparing a tweeter level control turned to max with a speaker designed to reproduce the complete range of high frequencies is meaningless."
No it's not. The tweeter level control in other speakers works exactly the same way. It's simply less expensive the way Magnepan does it, given that there is no need for frequent adjustment.
The point is indeed to match the power response to the room's reflectivity. Nothing wrong with that.
"No it's not. The tweeter level control in other speakers works exactly the same way. It's simply less expensive the way Magnepan does it, given that there is no need for frequent adjustment"
True, I thought he was referring to a treble level control on a amp.......... my bad..
"The point is indeed to match the power response to the room's reflectivity. Nothing wrong with that."
To me, it's wrong, fix the room, not the signal. You build a concert hall to maximize the experience of a symphony orchestra, you don't ask the orchestra to "tone it down".
Confusion partially my fault. I used to own snells. Came with tweeter knob on the back panel, type D's. I basically assumed in my mind that kind of knob.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
A treble level control on an amplifier could/might do the same thing. IF the characteristics could be set to achieve the same shelving action an inserted resistor would.
You could make a case that fixing the room and not the signal is a valid premise, but there are numerous "room correction" systems now that do it the other way 'round. And many people are happy with the results. Dirac Live is the most common one....but there are many others.
Dave.
So true, you could argue all day about tuning the signal or tuning the room to reach the same results. Back in the "old days" a clean straight signal path was the holy grail of high- end audio, anything resembling an equalizer was a dirty word. Computers and digitalization have created new options to achieve decent sound, but the purist approach still gets my vote.
The question then becomes what constitutes a "purist approach" considering we're not in the "old days" anymore.
Does a simple resistor in the tweeter signal path violate the "purist approach?" Hmmmmm. :)
Dave.
"The question then becomes what constitutes a "purist approach" considering we're not in the "old days" anymore."
A purist approach is the pursuit of a clean, straight signal path, avoiding or removing anything that would unnecessarily deteriorate or alter the source signal. This is a key factor for High-End amp + source manufacturers. Designers have often stated "A perfect design would be a straight wire with gain", thats about as pure as you can get. Thats why (quality) amps lack tone controls and use the shortest possible signal paths, we remove fuse + fuse holders, replace internal wiring, connectors + plugs or even better, make bare wire connections, all in the pursuit of reducing resistance + deterioration of the signal.
We may not be in the "old days" anymore, but that doesn't mean that digital possibilities have created a giant step forward. A top analog rig still competes with(or betters) anything digital, class D amps still cannot compete with pure class A and magneplanar speakers are still amongst the best money can buy.
"Does a simple resistor in the tweeter signal path violate the "purist approach?"
Yes.
That's some hard medicine there.
You mean speaker crossovers? I've never heard a crossover-less speaker. I would like to sometime.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
"You mean speaker crossovers?"
That would be great! every speaker manufacturer would love to build a speaker without crossovers, but then you need a point source that could cover the entire frequency range, from top to bottom. Would like to hear that too!
I thought that was Zu Audio's calling card?
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Zu audio? never heard of them, probably never crossed the pond. Did check them out and they indeed try to cover the range with one driver, cool....... would like to hear them, not much chance. Ugly as hell, won't win any design awards!
..
Did they always come with resistors?
Cut to razor sounding violins
No,my MGI Imp do not have a provision to add a resistor.
Interesting How old are those speakers?
Cut to razor sounding violins
"The resistors are there because they know people will use their speakers in over lively rooms or use mediocre electronics and cables resulting often in unpleasant high frequency reproduction. In a decent(acoustic) room combined with a well balanced system there should be no need for the use of a resistor."The top of the lines tho, surely those are educated consumers? Maybe I assume.
I'm new to this niche. Is it customary for Magnepan users to prefer mid-fi gear?
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Edits: 10/12/20
"so better models do not come with resistors?"
Apparently they do, could be Magnepan policy? I see no other reason for resistors unless they thought their high frequency response was flawed. I've seen and heard dozens of speakers over the years and I can't recall any with a resistor in the signal path.(controls for bass output? yes)
"the top of the lines tho, surely those are educated consumers? Maybe I assume."
Thats what I would think, but then again, I've had customers with very expensive gear that sounded like........... well, shit.
"Is it customary for Magnepan users to prefer mid-fi gear?"
Yes and no, with the cheaper models, people can not rationalize spending more money than their speakers cost , so end up with mid-fi. With the top range Maggies you see the quality of systems rise.
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