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In Reply to: RE: Ears to bass posted by Satie on July 23, 2017 at 19:36:18
Well. As a matter of fact - I have a Cary slp98p sidelined because of a power supply issue. With the logans (passive bass model - Odysseys) I thought the system had more bass with the DS direct. Not saying things couldn't be different now with different speakers ....
Haven't tried limage yet. 40% into room - by the walls-- no toe in correct - adjust seat position accordingly?
Btw. Vocals are getting more weight.
Time to get out the tape.
Follow Ups:
The Cary is a very nice preamp and it is a shame to have sidelined for delayed repairs. It should do the job
Yes, the basic Limage starting point is speakers face forwards, 1 ft off the sidewalls and the distance to the frontwall at 40%. Initial listening position is about 2' off the back wall.
First adjustment is determining the distance to the front wall. Since you are in a room with "classic" Limage proportions you can use the crouching walk method to find the room's null plane where you get the cathedral effect. Then move the speakers to that plane and repeat till you get the same position you are already in. (null plane is where the speaker plane is)
Then you adjust the slot to the sidewall to obtain the right tonal balance, Then you proceed to locate the best seat position, usually just a few inches away from the initial mark.
Finally you go for tweaking the toe in - really very fine adjustments.
I will say... Things seem to be hitting their stride.... Right around the 80 hr mark.... Very large difference.... and I am expecting more - we shall see.... Initially I increased toe-in which increased bass... I have since toed back out a bit - as I get more depth and space - but bass is still there as well....
Things are moving forward in a very positive direction.... :)
To be expected. :-)
I noticed a couple of things about your room -- nice big rectangular size, but the whole floor is carpeted which is going to eat some highs (narrowband rather than broadband absorption), and you're lacking diffusing surfaces, formal or ad hoc, so you may be having problems with slap echo -- try clapping above your head and listen to the decay.
Timm you have created a beautiful venue for the new Maggies.
The dark cherry with black fabric combination complements the warm rich
tones chosen for your new room.
Congratulations!
hey - thanks.....
I didn't exactly make everything look 'spiffy' in those pics... but yah you get the idea.... When I play - those overheads are out - and the floor lamp in the back of the room is on.... Gives a very rich feeling...
Last night - played Brubeck - Time Out.... Sort of a 'yowsa' moment'.... In particular the drum solo.... well actually everything about it... but- my obsession with 'how does it sound today?' really seems to be getting out of hand... haha.... Thing is - if I put a great recording on - things really sound .... great...... I do think I am getting a bit more bass and fullness to the mids.... I just don't think it is 'there there' yet....
And if anyone doubts that these break in - they do... No doubt about this.... end of discussion (kind of like what Al Gore said about Global warming.... :) ) ...... Everything so far has really tied to Dan Saltzman's review in Absolute Sound...... as he wrote about 're-writing the bass part of the review three times....' I am only 63 hours in ... and have noted an improvement.... but it just isn't there yet as I said above...
If anyone has any input on the room in regards to where they are placed within it .... as you see I have that pesky pole that I am putting in the null spot..... I could push them back to 5' from the front wall and bring my listening position up..... or try a limage type of setup.... My son is coming over this weekend -- We may get 'crazy'.... after marking off the positions.... Of course my wife will be yelling down.... 'what are you two doing down there?????' :) The lights got flipped on last night at 12:15.... 'What are you still doing up??? You need to go to sleep!' Oh boy.....
I wouldn't worry about the pole if it's in the null. If it's behind the speaker (or in front but not blocking it), I'd put a mirror on it and if you see HF or midrange drivers put some absorption on it to make it disappear. If you don't, it doesn't much matter. Low frequencies will just diffract around it.
Don't know if you've tried changing the separation as they recommend in the manual, moving them apart until you get a hole in the middle and then back together. I usually end up liking them on an equilateral triangle (to mids and tweeters, not the woofers) but many people like them closer together.
Hi Timm, Try moving them towards the front corners, start around 3 feet from front and side walls.
With music playing move one speaker out equidistant to front and side walls from there in small increments until you hear it couple with the room. Walk around and listen after each move. You will hear volume increase and the music become more full and rich. Repeat with others speaker.
It'll take some time, distance to walls may end up being close or far, but you'll know when you hear the magic. IMO 10 feet out is too far when the speakers are so close to the side walls.
Move ten them forward and backward, sideways, there will be a sweet spot for each speaker.
Good luck,
Paul
This weekend I think I will mark my current spot and go on a fishing expedition and move things a bit aggressively to see what happens to the overall tonality... I know right now my image is pretty good but who knows
I always end up trying them everywhere, and then end up with a fairly conventional arrangement -- equilateral triangle, toed in so they're on axis, as far from surfaces as possible -- but you have more latitude than I do because I have a sucky small room.
Thanks josh. Right now - I think things are still changing. So it is hard to nail down exact positioning yet. And us obsessive types do want the final position and to be done with it.
What I am noticing now ...regardless of music type is bass that is blossoming Mids that seem to have more attack. Improved imaging because of improved dynamics.
Remember. This was brand new wire ...new room ... new speaker. I have absolutely no real X sounded like this - in this room. I am sure I have a little bit of slap echo - but it isn't too bad.
Listening to Rite of Spring - Fischer - Budapest Festival - simply jaw dropping. Beatles the other night - the same. Ray Brown Trio - Soular Energy or Brubeck Take Five - wow. Dead Can dance - Enter the Labyrinth ??? Wow-wow. So I am all over the map and getting successful results with 80 hrs on them.
But I will fiddle - mark my spots and see what I got.
Heh, I started to answer this a few hours ago but decided to listen to Take 5 first. And there was something up on Tidal already when I opened it, string quartets that sounded so natural that I couldn't stop listening. So by the time I got to Take 5, I'd had those playing for several hours while I did some chores. The IVA's are sounding amazingly real since I fixed some cold solder joints the original owner made the other day and made some other improvements in my setup.
Anyway, the night is young as far as your setup is concerned! So figure they'll just keep getting better as you dial them in.
Ahh. Yes it is. Put on another ex beatle record - McCartney's Kisses on the Bottom. I was stunned not just because of the recording quality but it is just a bunch of old jazzy standards. Not a bunch of pop - old guy trying to act like he is 20 crap. Very impressive Sir Paul.
One thing that blew me a way a bit - and I didn't mention it. Maybe you guys know - but these behemoths actually do not rest on the bottom of the stands. They are about 1/4 inch above the stand with the L bracket just suspending them. Another thing I was impressed with in this post!! :)
Heh, no, I didn't know that.
Sons are very useful audiophile accessories. Do make use of the young ears and strong back....
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