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In Reply to: RE: 80% of the potential buyers can't compare them posted by OldNuke on July 03, 2017 at 20:01:10
Interesting point. I suspect that Wendell would say that it's the sound that sells Maggies, that you just can't sell people on big planars unless they hear them. Which is the reason they have the MMG program, to give people a taste of what the planar sound is all about, so people will check out the larger models.
The problem is, if they were to announce the technical specifics of what they've done -- we went to a series crossover, added damping, what have you (I have no idea myself, just repeating some speculations in this thread), what would it tell people about the sound?
I mean, we already know (and Magnepan makes no secret of) the main differences between the MMG's and .7's and 1.7's. Things like larger diaphragm area and baffles for deeper bass and higher output; taller, for better imaging and again higher/lower distortion output; all quasi-ribbon design (and true ribbon when you move up); super tweeter in the 1.7. And it's no secret that as you move up, the have more bass and output and definition and dispersion. But what does any of this do for you, by way of telling you whether you should trade in your MMG's and spend the extra money? It seems to me that only listening can tell you that -- or talking to people who have listened.
So while I'm all in favor of disclosing more info I don't know how much effect it would have on sales. Maybe I'm wrong and they should have a more conventional website that brags about their technology and ropes in some customers that way, but it definitely is at odds with their philosophy.
Follow Ups:
I think the problem with Wendell's approach is that the dealer network has worn thin and many have nowhere to hear a maggie. So specmanship and technology as well as reviews will be what brings the customers. Who then need to actually make an effort to find a dealer from whom to buy from.
Most of the potential buyers will never see a maggie in real life outside of the accidental visit to a friend who happens to have a maggie. They don't have a dealer nearby and they don't go to shows. That means that seeking an audition is an effort and without exactly those marketing hype promotions the potential customer will just not get a reason to make that effort.
Wendell should make the effort to push some promotion and get the speaker line reviewed in Stereophile. Measurements and all.
San Diego Maggie Dealer is GONE.
Rents got 'em and they moved to a 3 or 4 room 'closet' for the closeouts. OLD storefront, maybe 50 yards away had been converted into a Church. The old storefront also had 6 or 8 well-appointed sound rooms, reasonable staff and and Viable USED gear / Consignment areas.
I paid 'em a visit and bought the Grado Headphones I've wanted for late-nite listening.
GONE:
Too much is never enough
San Diego Maggie Dealer is GONE.
Rents got 'em and they moved to a 3 or 4 room 'closet' for the closeouts. OLD storefront, maybe 50 yards away had been converted into a Church. The old storefront also had 6 or 8 well-appointed sound rooms, reasonable staff and and Viable USED gear / Consignment areas.
I paid 'em a visit and bought the Grado Headphones I've wanted for late-nite listening.
GONE:
Too much is never enough
Know that one. All 3 dealers I used to frequent are gone. only one made it through the 2008 crash and they flubbed later. What is left is the high society North Suburban area in our "metro Columbus" where the current audio salons are - nearly an hour out of town. The near downtown University district home to OSU was the center of audiophile activity 20+ years ago with 3 dealers and a dedicated vintage shop. Millenials don't live in the "posh" suburbs but near downtown, and those who do live in the high end burbs are stranded in their parent's basements.
The demographics of the top burbs are very boomer and many would have downsized had their basements not been occupied by student loan broke underemployed kids- about just under 40% of millenials. Downsizing is not really in the cards for these folks and many would not retire even if they could afford to.
Speaking of Basement-Living 'millenials' with huge student debt?
40% + want somebody else to NOW pick up the tab.
I'm retired and owe nothing on my house. And if push comes to shove? I'll go for some kind of Reverse Mortgage (boy, are those things evil or what?) and let the relatives fight over the bones when I'm room temp.
Too much is never enough
Sounds like you read the book "Die Broke".
The Millenials got a bit of a raw deal on their education costs and extremely weak career guidance. Many went into areas where their education is unlikely to give them an income edge high enough to cover the cost and the delay in onset of making a wage. In many cases the job market response was to require a college degree for semiskilled positions that never needed them before. So the kids end up very underemployed and we have a "skills gap".
With the boomer generation downsizing (many selling the house they raised their family in), and needing smaller speakers to not overtake their new smaller places, and with younger music fanatics not into high performance gear at all, not even aware of speakers like Maggies, I'm surprised Magnepan sells as many of their speakers as they do. I would say, in spite of everything, they are doing something (in fact many things) right. Let's all wish them continued success!
Edits: 07/08/17
Ever been to a high end show in a LARGE venue?
Demographics are overwhelmingly male.
Mostly 50years + Some with Hearing Aids, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
30 and under are probably no more than 20% of the attendees. Female certainly not even 10%
A strong showing by ESL (English as a Second Language) Asian Men, all very neatly attired, some with wives or GirlFriends.
Unless the base is broadened, many companies will survive only thru Merger / Acquisition or simple DownSizing.
Too much is never enough
I just don't think some posters are understanding the point here.
Yes, the MMG is a teaser model designed to attract folks to the larger models. Yes, the larger ones sound better. Yes, only listening really matters. Yes, it might not increase sales. Etc, etc, etc.
All of those reasons are irrelevant regards disclosing technical information regarding the upgrades.
More information for customers is nearly always better. Some customers might not care.....some might not understand the specific technical information.....some might not this, some might not that..... BUT, at least they have this information available to them to better inform their decision.
I still can't figure out why somebody would send their beloved speakers (and $500) to Magnepan for a mysterious improvement that Magnepan will not reveal the specifics of.
My goodness.
Dave.
I agree that the black box approach has not gone over well.
It's as if a car manufacturer refused to tell you how many cylinders their car has, and said, the only thing that counts is performance, take the car for a test drive -- and on top of that, there weren't any dealers in most of the country at which you *could* take the car for a test drive.
At the same time, I understand Wendell's point. A lot of stuff is sold using specsmanship or bragging about materials and tech. "Micronized rodent tongues, lapped to within a millionth of an inch, damp resonances in the low-infrasonic region . . . "
So while I do agree that they should return to releasing this basic information, and think that they're unnecessarily causing friction with some of their most loyal customers, I don't think that kind of info does the person contemplating an upgrade a bit of good. If anything, it might mislead them because of the power of tech lust.
I mean, we know that they added a damping strip to the 3.7i. From an engineering perspective, that interests me, but what does it tell me about whether the upgrade would be worth $500 and shipping? Nothing. Even if I saw the measurements they wouldn't tell me that.
I'd either have to listen (preferable), read a review (good if a reputable reviewer but in my experience anyway only about 50% compared to listening), rely on scuttlebutt, or just trust that Magnepan wouldn't have made the upgrade if it hadn't been worthwhile.
Hey Josh,
Hope you find the bug affecting your subject line, that's got to be frustrating.
But you voice the situation as it currently sets, a set of circular logic. I can go by what's available in reviews and opinions on what to upgrade or go by the sound. But the "sound" isn't available. Sound can't convince me since I cannot go anywhere to hear it.
Technical specs can do a lot to let you judge improvements. If I was told that the MMGi (or .7 or bigger), increased the treble I currently hear, it gives me a reference to set my expectations. If told the bass goes deeper than current, I can compare it to bass tones I have (since I added a sub) and have an idea what the "new" Maggies sound like.
Everything is subjective and dependent on the system but to put out an "upgrade" and not put out the improvements is a problem area to me and pushes me away from being a repeat customer.
I have to contact the Asylum since the subject line bug is at their end.
As to not mentioning the improvements, I agree. I understand their reasoning but the fact is people want to know before they spend their money.
However, I don't think the kind of information you're asking for is all that useful in practice. Why? Because if someone says "better highs," I still don't know whether the highs are better enough to make an upgrade worth it to *me.*
That's so subjective. I remember forex that when the 3.7 came out, you had some guys upgrading from 3.6's and they were all saying wow, that's a worthwhile improvement, and then someone else who upgraded and said yeah I an hear the difference but it isn't worth the expense.
So how can you make that judgment for people? Most people agree when a speaker gets better. What I think we can't say is how important an improvement is to somebody and whether it's worth it to them -- $500 means less to Bill Gates than to someone with a middle class income.
I can hazard a guess though that you'd be pleased with an upgrade. I don't know about the MMGi since no one has heard it and my own experience is kind of lopsided, I haven't heard the .7 or even the 1.7, just the MMG (which I owned) and various other models. But both the .7 and 1.7 got rave reviews and Magnepan has a 30 day home trial now and says they'll pay you $100 if you return them! So that shows a lot of faith in the upgrade. (Website says the offer ends 7/1 but you could ask Wendell what the current status is.) And I think they do say that the 1.7i has deeper bass (it's in the specs on their website) and better highs (it has a supertweeter -- the MMG beams because the tweeter is wider). (In practice though since you hae a sub the bass extension isn't going to be that important to you, the sub will still go lower -- it might allow you to reduce the crossover point for better blending between sub and Maggie.)
If I were you, I'd take advantage of the trial offer which is their way of dealing with situations in which customers can't hear the product.
Believe me, I'm constantly in this situation myself these days, so I empathize -- I don't live near a dealer anymore so all I can do is listen to reviews and recommendations and then try something out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and I really wish I'd had a chance to listen first, though it isn't the end of the world, if you don't like something you can always sell it.
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