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In Reply to: RE: Here you go posted by Norman M on June 19, 2017 at 11:49:43
I like the idea of Lang Lang. :-)
Really, after seeing what the Chinese have done with companies like Acoustat and Quad, I'm really, really glad that Magnepan is still making their speakers here.
Wendell also asks whether people would rather deal with some call center in Bangalore where the people don't know anything than talk to the factory where they can actually talk to someone who really knows the product. Their system clearly has some issues they'll have to fix but when it works as it usually does, it's a reminder of what customer service was like in the days before everything was outsourced and companies stopped caring about customer service.
I tried to order a NuPrime amp a few months ago and it was backordered, supposed to be coming from China one of these months -- eventually gave up and cancelled the order and got a Benchmark AHB2 instead. Apparently Emotiva has moved their manufacturing back to the US -- their prices have gone up a bit but apparently it serves them better than importing amps at this point.
Follow Ups:
China isn't that cheap any longer. Skilled labor is in short supply and they are trying to outsource. 3 decades of 10% annual wage growth is pricing China out of low skilled work as urbanization into the industrial coast has been slowing since 2008 and had been 0 last year, so no more labor supply. Further, working age population is declining faster than Japan and will fall to near 1/2 in a few decades.
My understanding is that there are many Chinese workers eager to get a job working for Apple, but not enough positions exist. Doing a stint with Apple is a feather in one's cap, and opens doors for other hard to get jobs. "Designed in California Assembled in China" appears on numerous Mac products, as it does on my iPad. Perhaps needless to add, Apple Stores and Service Centers exist at numerous locations at any single spot all over the world. When a new (assembled in China) Apple product is scheduled to go on sale, potential customers line up at their doors the night before eager to hand over their hard earned money, so Apple must be doing something right,Chinese workers and all.
On another subject, IMO for an outfit such as Magnepan not to have any or enough skilled workers on hand (for any reason whatsoever) to quickly and efficiently perform under warranty repairs is INEXCUSABLE. I own nostill under warranty Magnepan product, so who am I to bitch?, but I'd be willing to pay more for a product if I knew it would be serviced quickly if ever required, as an insurance policy. (And moreover not get all kinds of round arounds as I got last year, when their left hand didn't know what the right one was doing. Restoring and servicing out of warranty products should bring in added revenue, so it needn't be looked upon as Magnepan doing a customer some big fat favor.
They run their service department at cost, as a service to customers.
An old-fashioned way of doing business where you didn't screw the customer, and I've actually complained to Wendell that the service department prices are too low (I don't see how they could possibly cover their overhead with what they charged me for the parts for my IVA's), but it is nice.
As to hiring more people I think two things have to be considered. One is that large expensive planars don't sell. They'd have to turn into a boutique operation like most of the remaining planar manufacturers (I think Martin Logan is the only one that stills sells speakers in quantity).
The other is that in an operation of Magnepan's size, having a backup for every skilled operation would mean hiring two people instead of one! And labor is the biggest cost for just about any company. Now consider that a consumer electronics product has to sell at 4 or 5 times the cost of making it. This kind of policy would send the price of Maggies into the stratosphere and likely kill the company (as well as those of us who buy them). So they have to work with what they have, and try to find ways to minimize these problems.
Running their service department at cost seems the equivalent of giving their service away for nothing, as if it were charity work. As a business model isn't that doomed to fail? It's a miracle that it's survived as long as it has. Is there any place on earth where the service department of an auto dealer does that? IMO, as things stand anyone wanting to own a large planar (e.g., 20.7 or 3.7i) has to be crazy. Perhaps there should be a clause in their product warranty that states if the one and only individual capable of repairing your speaker leaves, get's sick or is otherwise incapable of coming to work, you are out of luck until someone is hired to replace him/her.
I think the reason they do customer support at cost is because they represent an earlier ethos in high end audio, which originally was (and still is) a labor of love rather than a cutthroat take the customer for what he's worth business.
In fact, that's one of the reasons I like Magnepan, they take me back to the days when audio was a hobby and it wasn't all about $100,000 this and cables marked up 10,000 percent.
But I agree completely that their service department should charge a fair markup, not the take the customer for all he's worth markup of mass consumer goods but a fair one. After all, the company has to survive and they aren't making any money off Tympanis sold 35 years ago, in fact every time they help a customer restore an old Maggie it means they've lost a potential sale of a new one.
Otherwise, I think, in all fairness, their customer service is usually top notch. They offer a level of support that is almost unheard of these days. Just look at other speaker manufacturers -- if your IRS loses an EMIT, good luck, you're going to have to have it refurbished by a third party. But when I needed some felt for my 35-year-old IVA's I just called Magnepan and wham.
By way of contrast, my 1-1/2 year old, $650 smart phone doesn't even have a replaceable battery, and Android will only be supported three years from date of purchase!
And don't even get me started on waiting an hour for tech support from most companies these days and then talking to someone in Bangalore who barely speaks English and knows less than I do.
So while I hope Magnepan can find a fix for some of these issues I think on balance their service is light years ahead of most companies these days.
I wish Magnepan best of luck; I firmly believe the golden age of audio has come and left; home theater gave a LOT of manufacturer's a much needed shot in the arm; this created a lot of interest and foot traffic into brick and mortar businesses in the 80s and 90s but as we all know those businesses began to slowly then quickly fade away.On the subject of Apple, I guess they know what they're doing; they're on pace to become the first $1,000,000,000,000.00 (that's 'trillion' ) dollar company .
Edits: 06/20/17 06/20/17
That at least provides some hope that equilibrium will be restored and the downward pressure on industrialized economies will fade -- though there are still an awful lot of people in the third world.
Of course, China is still a medium income country with wages much lower than they are here, and goods can still be made more cheaply there than here. My understanding is that the manufacturing that is moving back is doing so because other factors, such as the cost of transportation, make it more economical to do so for a given product.
Of course there are IP theft and still considerable graft. And officials never seem to know what policy is.
Energy is newly cheap in the US and some components and crucial capital equipment are made here so saves you on downtime and inventory/express shipping. But mostly it is the need for rapid response to market changes and the tightening labor outlook in China..
Interesting.
Nat gas is less than half the price in industrialized countries and light US oil is selling 10% below intl' heavy crude, which is a 20% cheaper distillate and polyolefin input stock.
US WTIC always had a 10% premium,till frack oil took over.
We will end the year with a million bbl daily export and will be no. 2 LNG exporter soon.
Also interesting. I just read that OPEC had reduced production, something I hadn't been aware of either, though there still appears to be a significant surplus. The Saudis appear willing to absorb a lot to maintain market share and put financial pressure on Iran.
That is the funny bit as Saudi went to max pumping in 2015 they regained maket share and put 3/4 of US independents and a few pipeliners out of biz. US rigs went from 1k to 250 but the US production drop didn't last once they tightened quotas and spiked prices higher. Within less than 2 years we are back to a higher peak and at 10mbpd US and are on par with Saudi and Russia. Frack breakeven price fell by 1/2 from $80 @ 2010 to $40 now. Looking like a Moore's law for fracking.
That's interesting. I didn't know US production was back and I had no idea that fracking breakeven had declined. Because of new technology, or because the less efficient fields have been forced out of operation, or both?
Baaken is still $50+, Permian figures are better than the industry averages I quoted. Fracking is truly transformative for the energy market, and has deep significance in geopolitics and international monetary economics and finance.
If US and state level regulators allow rapid permitting then the rust belt can revive on cheap nat gas feedstocks for over a decade into the future using utica and marcellus shale gas.
Satie. How do you know so much about this? Do you work in the industry? In my area - there is a lot of discussion about the dangers with fracking like possible water supply issues. Not to take this thread off course even more!! :). I know nothing of it so wondered if it was a concern.
It is part of my ongoing market and economic tracking work and I occasionally trade energy and related stocks. Have a slight background in the industry.
A big part of the drop in costs is due to water recycling and distribution of fracking to side bores off the well casing that apparently frack more stone with less pressure.That reduces the environmental footprint greatly compared to wells pre 2011. Of course, shallow wells increase the risks to ground water, but most wells are far deeper than ground water.
I wish that was enough to save the rust belt. But natural gas prices have been much lower here than elsewhere for years and while it's helped the chemical industry it doesn't seem to have lowered costs enough to overcome wage and regulatory differences, as well as discriminatory tariffs, currency manipulation, and all of the other factors that have made American manufacturing uncompetitive.
Our kids' godmother is Chinese.. She loves Yo Yo but finds Lang Lang's playing to be a bit eccentric. Unfortunately she cannot repair Magnepans.
Edits: 06/19/17 06/19/17
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