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In Reply to: RE: Amps for esl63 posted by digda_beat on March 05, 2017 at 22:45:39
thanks for all the responses.
I have been using a rotel rb 870Bx whichdoes a pretty job, and I was asking on behalf of a guy I know who has those amps.
Having heard that tubes were good with Quads, and knowing someone who loves his OTl with the esl57, I got myself a pair of Transcendent sound "single ended with Slam" OTL amps when my esl's were out of action. some time between buying them and setting them up I recalled that Singles ended amps don't have a good rep with stats. I contacted the manufacturer and sadly he confirmed that " I don't think there would be enough current"
Follow Ups:
I've tried a few pairs of high powered tube amps with a variety of Quads including ESL63's, 989's, 2905's, and a pair of PK Customs (hand made with 5 ESL63 panels each). The results have been variable. I have a pair of CJ Premier 8's upgraded to KT120's with 300 watts per channel and they did not work very well with Quads. That was surprising to me because they are beasts with tons of power. The speakers would clip repeatedly on dynamic peaks (not crazy loud either....) and the match was basically unlistenable.
I've also got a pair of Carver 300 watt mono blocks with KT120's that worked a whole lot better but not sensational by any means. The Quads didn't clip as much and the sound was really good, but not what I'd call 'magical". Now I'm using CAT JL7 250w mono blocks with KT150's and its a fantastic match with my PK Customs. The CAT's seem to drive them effortlessly with gorgeous sound. Unfortunately the CAT's are relatively expensive, but I'm presenting this only as an example of the wide variability in results of using tube amps with Quads.
I'm no audio engineer and all of my experience is trial and error, but the lesson I've learned here is that more watts is not the answer to good sound from tube amps with Quads. Although CAT does not publish much about the specs of their gear, The JL7's have huge transformers and most likely more current than the other 2 pair of amps. They just seem to have unlimited power and firmly embrace the Quads with a tight grip. I've never had the PK Customs clip with the JL7's even at volume levels of 105 db, which is about as loud as I could stand it.
I'll bet the Music Reference RM-200 or RM-200 Mk.2 would work well with the 63. It's very stable into a capacitive load, and unlike all other tube amps (I believe), it's output increases with falling impedance.
One of the amps I tried with 63's was an OTL that did have sufficient power and it did sound very good. I used it for about a year before deciding I preferred whatever it is that transformers do for the sound.
which OTL was that?
I love my NYAL OTL's.
Upgraded Transcendent, and I thought it was great at first, used it for a year, which is a long time for me. Very clean, fast, dynamic. It is probably a personal preference that I went back to amplifiers with transformers.
I"d love to hear more details if you can manage. which transcendent was it?
I am rather interested in those amplifiers, in case my NYAL's ever die.
And which transformer amp did you prefer? From your message, I get the impression
that in fact it may be more a question of many amps rather than one amp.
In my system, which I built in the 80's. the NYAL completely blew away the Audio Research D250.
Thinking about your situation, my 2 cents is that if you like your NYAL, and you ever have a problem you can always have it repaired. The worst case scenario would be a power transformer failure, and if there isn't a replacement you could have yours rewound. Any other problems, e.g., leaky capacitor, tube socket etc., are pretty trivial repairs.
Roger Modjeski of Music Reference was first exposed to the OTL amplifier when a guy brought in a Futterman to the electronic repair shop he was working in at the time (the 60's). He was fascinated, and thus he began his study of the design. He identified the reasons for the instability in the Futterman OTL amp (as well as the amp's other problems), and designed his own OTL in which such problems were nowhere to be seen. He sold the design to Counterpoint who manufactured and marketed it as the SA-4. Anyway, in the AudioCircle Music Reference Forum (now closed, though still viewable) Roger discusses OTL design (and many other topics), which anyone interested in OTL amps should find fascinating and illuminating.
Thank-you, that was informative and interesting.
I had the predecessor to the current Beast line, I believe the model number was T8,it used EL509's for outputs. The transformer amplifier I am using now is an updated HK Citation II. I did try quite a few transformer amplifiers and still switch others in from time to time, they all have have their own sound signature. I had also read that Atma-Sphere OTL's sound very good with ESL63's. From my experience with the Transcendent OTL, I can understand why someone would prefer OTL's. I think mine was a personal preference and I also noticed that I tended to listen to the OTL at higher volumes than I do with transformer amplifiers.
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