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In Reply to: RE: Adding a tweeter to MMG posted by aceinc on February 22, 2017 at 13:16:54
Aceinc, I found "B. B. King & Eric Clapton - Riding With the King". No issues on my [heavily modded] MMG's playing "solo". I spent the most time listening and measuring songs #5 & #12.
The bass on #5 (Three O'Clock Blues) even rattled something HERE in this room. I am writing from a room 30ft away straight line, on a PC remotely operating the others. For this to happen, however, I had taken the low filter off (which normally limits the "too much bass" of my MMG's.)
I also ran them with the cone woofers on briefly, for comparison. The additional low reach of the woofers can be heard and can be easily measured. However, their absence is not missed. One still gets enough of the bass, and often some fairly good dynamic punch. (though, sure, unaided Maggies can't do that....yeah, right.)
During the upcoming demo, my guess is that it could be the .7's the ones that get closer to this, if I remember well what you described. The current MMG's, out of the box...no chance. Since I won't be able to measure there, I'll just have to train my ears to one particular song.
So, please let me know if you have a preference for any of these songs in the album and I'll include it in the CD's that I am preparing for the demo session.
Here are SPL peaks reached for the respective frequencies during the initial 1 min 30 secs of 1 piece, with/without woofer. This was on Wednesday evening, mindful of my neighbor. (Please note, "no filters" means that the mid/bass driver is in its "natural" range, without extra xover filtering. This is NOT the normal usage. Normally, I use a low filter as in the last 2 graphs. One is another song (played for 2.5 minutes) but "with filter on". The other, #4, is the normal frequency response sweep, also with the filter on).
1. (below) BBKing-Clapton 3Oclock Blues 1.5 minutes -Peaks at -9db direct M-PC no Filters no Woofer.png
2. (below) BBKing-Clapton 3Oclock Blues 1.5 minutes -Peaks at -9db direct M-PC no Filters + Woofer.png
3. (below) BBKing-Clapton Come Rain 2.5 minutes -Peaks at -9db direct M-PC no Woofer.png
4. (below) MMG's frequency response measure at listening position on Feb-15-2017 (current but expected to change after upcoming room reconfiguration)
Follow Ups:
Three O'Clock Blues is good. I got home from Atlanta late, and there is a bit of drama I need to deal with, so I can't focus on the music much.
Paul
Got it. Good luck.
Basically, I had to change my flight to a later flight to be able to finish my work and just before I boarded, my wife told me that my mother in law that lives in an attached apartment was transported to the local emergency room.
So I was unable to focus on the CD, although I did squeeze in a listen to 3 o'clock blues. It sounded nice on my existing 802s.
Aceinc, I hope that she is doing well by now. I am in a bit of hurry to leave now -- related to my best friend's mother passing away -- but I'll probably PM you later today.
I did not get to listen to Maggies other than the 3.7i, which ate up all my time...and should not have. Had to wait for a blasted power amp to fully warm up!
What type of power amp requiers more than a minute or two to warm up?
Sent the PM.
You'd be surprised. For example, all my Paround HCA amps and also the nearest friend's Halo A21 are so well known to me that I can tell. They sound great a few minutes after warmup. However, they deliver their most delightful personalities only after vigorously driving for over an hour. I've often walked into my friend's room, where B&W's are being driven, and know right away if he had been playing for long. LOL, like my Maggies, the B&W's are not shy about denouncing things like these.
Which brings me to what I heard. A 75wpc premium tuber driving the 3.7i's with decent aplomb at first but not delivering the real goods until close to an hour later. I know the 3.7i enough; they were yelling "this is unfair!"
Hate to ask a dumb question, but how do you get PMs via Audio Asylum?
For PM, you click on the member's moniker and the next screen will show a few things, along with form to send a message. It does depend on whether or not that person allows messages to be sent to her/him.
The message is simple email. The recipients typically reply directly from their email account
JBen, I am in Atlanta on business. However I get back tomorrow evening, and I have the physical CD you are referring to, and will check out the cuts you reference.
What software are you using to get the graphs that you are displaying?
BTW, I live off I75 & Griffin in Broward if you ever get down to my neck of the woods and want to check out my system.
Paul
Aceinc, I'll stay tuned for when you return.
The graphs are from REW ( Room EQ Wizard ). I've been using it since 2008 to help me shape my Maggies up more objectively. It is a free program that allows measuring a whole lot of useful things. We can talk more about this later but it is invaluable for things like what you have in mind.
Not far, I am in Coral Springs so yes, when the time comes I'd love to.
I have been using REW for a number of years as well. I have never used it to do this type of analysis, however.
I used it to set up my subs, mainly.
LOL, that does not surprise me, but at least it makes you familiar enough to explore further. When REW started, it was sheltered in the Home Theater Shack. With folks having headaches adopting subwoofers "properly", REW was a natural resource. Its default settings even came oriented towards this purpose. Along time, it has evolved into a much more ample tool set. Just make sure that you have a recent version. I use the "multiple REW instances" version for Windows.Then, for the reasonable price of a good cup of espresso, of course :) I'll be glad to give you the expanded tour. For now, notice the little camera icon at the upper left corner of some plots? It creates snapshots. Also, you can tell REW to scan at full frequency vs the original default low range.
Edits: 02/23/17
JBen, I have used REW full range, but never analyzing music as it was played. At present I have been using the USB microphone that came with my Emotiva XMC-1. Of course it is not calibrated, and when I posted on the HTS - REW forum about a calibration file, I got crickets.
Since I do not drink coffee, I would need to defer, I could however provide one of a variety of Rums, including two types of Cuban Rum. I often also have Single Malt Scotch around. Perhaps a Fat Tire Beer?
No coffee?!!!! Bummer...LOL, I am an eclectic. Just today (as Sunday) they brought me a bottle of my favorite rum...I had a shot right after the Oscars...so, that's covered for the week. Likewise for the Scotch, had some at a friend's on Saturday. However, I don't remember trying that beer...sounds mighty interesting.
These days one can get a new (and useful) calibrated mic for <$20. I'll see if I can bring my portable one to show you.
BTW, analyzing music as it is playing is not usually a practical day-day thing, though it can have some useful applications. I only use it on a comparative basis. For example comparing 1 minute of track X with/without...woofers, or filters or something. It is only as a quick tool. If I need to go further, I use other tools, which I'll show you later.
For example, I only posted some graphs but I actually generated others to cross-reference via another program that same evening. One such is below. Done with another program, it looks at the frequencies present in the digital source file for that same period of 1.5 minutes of Three O'clock Blues. One thing it confirms is that frequencies below 40hz ARE present in the recording, but not as strongly as at 40hz and above. This jives well with what REW "heard" though they are different measurements. One is frequencies. The other (REW) is SPL peaks reached at each frequencies. No rocket science inovolved, though. LOL. If I can do it...
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