• RE: yes - ish - BigguyinATL 22:40:43 04/18/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  Yes, successfully. MMG's with Crown XTI Amps HF @ 24dB LR @ 850Hz, The Main panel has HP80Hz 12dB/Octave with a little EQ at the bottom as well, and the same LR 24dB 850Hz -6dB crossover and the upper. Both Are in phase. Subs (2) at the sides of the room 80Hz crossover 24dB crossover.
  
  The Crowns make it easy to get a lot of power into the MMG's are are not completely out of the price range. XTI1000's @ 499 each - two required.
  
  I did the setup with A full set of instrumentation, TDS, RTA, FFT, this is not a job for ears. Too easy to screw it up. I also use a little bass compression at very high levels to protect the Woofers.
  
  A simple 4 pole Speak-on connector at the back of the speaker connects each speaker to it's amplifier. Standard tweeter fuse is retained.
  
  
  
  
  "The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
  
  

  ---
• Yes - sbrians 13:01:01 04/15/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  For the 3 series, ~ double the dynamics. Much better clarity, etc.
  As stated below, even passive bi-amping can take you over half way there.
  I mix Class D and hybrid (tube/bipolar)amps and don't hear a problem in matching - I have tried swapping them; not much difference. So, either I have a great class D amp or matching is overrated (or somewhere in between). Mine do seem to have similar gains based on swapping them.
  Kent of KMF audio made my 2-way active which sounds very transparent:

  • http://www.kmfaudio.com/whoweare.html   (Open in New Window)

  
  

  ---
• RE: Magnepan XOvers - dumpingground 05:55:48 04/15/15 (13)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  I have journeyed from OEM upgraded components, active DSP, and PLLXO.

  http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=171078
  http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=184970
  http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=196102

  To characterize my various updates documented here on the MUG forum over the last 3 years I would list them as such:

  STAGE I:
  OEM XO to speaker level XO with updated components and biamping-> more power, a hint of better clarity and 3D

  STAGE II:
  speaker level XO with updated components and biamping to minidsp based ALLXO (active DSP based line level crossover)biamping -> significantly better clarity, 3D'ness, you are there feeling in the sound. Less compression, more power in complex music. Thump issues if not careful in power up/down sequence of system.

  STAGE III:
  minidsp based ALLXO biamping to PLLXO (DAVEY PLLXO with polystyrene caps)-> Very nice jump in quality of sound, especially in the highs and female vocals. Tightness of bass enhanced. Careful attention needed to grounding and shielding of cables to prevent HUM issues required.

  STAGE IV:
  PLLXO (DAVEY ver w/ polystyrene caps) to PLLXO (USSR FT-1 surplus teflon cap in tweeter circuit)-> again improvement in highs, "S" sounds, female vocals. Not as significant a jump as from initial ALLXO to PLLXO update, but brings in another refinement of quality to the sound. Still need to pay attention to HUM issues.

  EDIT: One clarification, I based my DSP crossover comments on my use of the minidsp 2x4 unit which provides analog outputs and uses it's own DAC function. Since that time minidsp has come out with a DSP unit that has digital outputs so you can use your own DAC's for the final stages.
  

  ---

  Edits: 04/15/15

  • RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - andyr 16:09:29 04/16/15 (12)
    In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by dumpingground on April 15, 2015 at 05:55:48

    I have been exploring the miniDSP 2x4 units. Reading the current specs (on the miniDSP site), it seems yes, the minidsp 2x4 units provide analog outputs and uses its own D2A stage.
    
    However, someone told me you can take a feed off before their D2A stage and so use your own external D2A converters (for better sound)? Is this true with the miniDSP units you are using?
    
    If not, can you tell me the name of the miniDSP unit that has digital outputs so you can use your own 8-channel D2A unit for the final stage?
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Andy
    

    ---

    • RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - dumpingground 18:54:23 04/16/15 (1)
      In Reply to: RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... posted by andyr on April 16, 2015 at 16:09:29

      At the time of my investigations, minidsp had a board called the minidigi that you could add to the minidsp 2x4 to add SPDIF outputs and then use your own DAC. The other 2x8 and 2x10 boards were not available.
      
      I actually purchased a pair of miniDIGI boards and tried them with some DAC's I had on hand. I ended up abandoning this approach because in my setup the minidsp 2x4 did not seem to cleanly reset the minidigi board on power up and power down. Sometimes leaving me in a state with no sound and sometimes with static and sometimes with pop's to my amps on power down. I know that I could have gone to a power up/down sequencer to help out the situation. But at the time I did not want to add that complication to my system.
      
      
      
      
      

      ---

      • Aah, thanks. nt - andyr 19:11:32 04/16/15 (0)
        In Reply to: RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... posted by dumpingground on April 16, 2015 at 18:54:23

        .
        

        ---
    • RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - Davey 17:32:23 04/16/15 (9)
      In Reply to: RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... posted by andyr on April 16, 2015 at 16:09:29

      Andy,
      
      If you want to use your own DAC's, I wouldn't select the 2x4 unit. In fact, knowing your objective, I wouldn't select that unit for other reasons as well. :)
      The 2x8 (4x10Hd) unit is fine, but the DAC's are integrated.
      
      Check the nanoDIGI or miniSHARC unit.
      
      Dave.
      

      ---

      • RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... - andyr 18:02:05 04/16/15 (8)
        In Reply to: RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... posted by Davey on April 16, 2015 at 17:32:23

        Thanks, Dave,
        
        I had a look at them ... but I'll have another look. :-))
        
        There seems to be a problem with my situation that didn't seem to suit the nanoDIGI & the miniSHARC. My problem is that (for stereo) I need to cope with 4 inputs - each side, I need to take in 2 separate outputs from my preamp:
        1. the feed for my bass drivers (which will include the new subs), and
        2. the feed to my mid panels & ribbons.
        
        The feed to the bass drivers comes out of my preamp before the tube output buffer ... the feed to the mids and ribbons has gone through the unity-gain tube output buffer. I (and other users of this preamp who run active XOs) noticed that the signal coming from the tube:
        * sounds much nicer (no 'ss sterility'), but
        * leading edge bass transients were softened slightly.
        
        Hence we use the preamp's "sub out" to drive subs & bass drivers and run the mids & tweeters from the tube.
        
        The 2x4 units cope with this nicely (one input will feed 2 of the 4 outputs, the other input feeds the other 2 outputs) but I seem to remember the nano and the miniSHARC units didn't like it.
        
        
        Regards,
        
        Andy
        

        ---

        • RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... - Davey 06:15:37 04/17/15 (7)
          In Reply to: RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... posted by andyr on April 16, 2015 at 18:02:05

          "The 2x4 units cope with this nicely (one input will feed 2 of the 4 outputs, the other input feeds the other 2 outputs) but I seem to remember the nano and the miniSHARC units didn't like it."
          
          I don't know what "didn't like it" means. The routing matrix on those two units is extremely flexible and allows many more combinations than the basic 2x4 unit. These units should simplify your external component count, not complicate it. :)
          
          Dave.
          

          ---

          • RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... - andyr 14:03:00 04/17/15 (6)
            In Reply to: RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... posted by Davey on April 17, 2015 at 06:15:37

            It means, the way I read the specs, Dave, they wouldn't allow me to have (for 4 inputs feeding 8 outputs):
            
            * input #1 (coming from L ss pre out) connects to outputs #1 (L sub) & #2 (L woofer)
            
            * input #2 (coming from L tube pre out) connects to outputs #3 (L mid) & #4 (L ribbon)
            
            * input #3 (coming from R ss pre out) connects to outputs #5 (R sub) & #6 (R woofer)
            
            * input #4 (coming from R tube pre out) connects to outputs #7 (R mid) & #8 (R ribbon).
            
            
            Whereas using a 'L' and a 'R' 2x4 miniDSP unit allows me to have:
            
            * input #1 (coming from ss pre out) connects to outputs #1 (sub) & #2 (woofer)
            
            * input #2 (coming from tube pre out) connects to outputs #3 (mid) & #4 (ribbon).
            
            I'd be delighted to be told I read the specs on the nanoDIGI and the miniSHARC wrong! :-))
            
            
            Regards,
            
            Andy
            

            ---

            • RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... - Davey 19:08:09 04/17/15 (5)
              In Reply to: RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... posted by andyr on April 17, 2015 at 14:03:00

              The nanoDIGI unit doesn't allow that, but the miniSHARC or the 4x10Hd unit will. You can indeed have four inputs feeding eight outputs in any type of matrix you select. You may have to add an extra DAC or ADC accessory to achieve it, but it can be done.
              
              I suggest to purchase the miniSHARC plugin for ten dollars and install on your computer and play with it. You will see what I mean and can experiment before you commit to purchase the hardware.
              
              Dave.
              

              ---

              • RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... - andyr 01:21:57 04/18/15 (4)
                In Reply to: RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... posted by Davey on April 17, 2015 at 19:08:09

                Hi Dave,
                
                I'd love to purchase the miniSHARC plugin but I went to here: http://www.minidsp.com/
                
                and clicking on both the 'v Products' and 'v Applications' tabs on the top of the page brings up a whole list of 'things' ... but this list does not include a "miniSHARC plugin"?
                
                Can you point me directly to the place where I can order the miniSHARC plugin?
                
                
                Thanks,
                
                Andy
                
                

                ---

                • RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... - Davey 06:57:28 04/18/15 (3)
                  In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by andyr on April 18, 2015 at 01:21:57

                  http://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-plug-ins/minisharc-4x8-plug-in-detail
                  
                  Dave.

                  • miniDSP plugin link   (Open in New Window)

                  
                  

                  ---

                  • Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... - andyr 04:46:02 04/21/15 (1)
                    In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by Davey on April 18, 2015 at 06:57:28

                    from miniDSP either giving me a URL & a key to download ... or an attachment which is the software?
                    
                    Should I email them?
                    
                    
                    Andy
                    

                    ---

                    • RE: Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... - Davey 05:39:35 04/21/15 (0)
                      In Reply to: RE: Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... posted by andyr on April 21, 2015 at 04:46:02

                      When you order a plugin it arrives in your User-Downloads area about five minutes later. Upper right hand corner of any miniDSP screen....if you're logged on.
                      Continue off line. Nobody really gives a hoot about miniDSP issues on this forum. :)

                      Dave.
                      

                      ---

                      Edits: 04/21/15
                  • Thanks very much, Dave. nt - andyr 15:39:35 04/18/15 (0)
                    In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by Davey on April 18, 2015 at 06:57:28

                    .
                    

                    ---
• RE: Magnepan XOvers - Satie 22:16:49 04/14/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  I have been triamping with nothing left of the original crossover.
  
  Many have done so with a digital crossover or analog both active and passive (PLLXO). I run an active bass low pass and a passive line level XO for midrange and tweeter. I occasionally switch back to biamping (like at the moment, with upgraded caps).
  
  If you run all digital and you are ok with less than perfect (but still very good) DACs then the DEQX or TACT system and lower cost DIY board based DSP ones can provide both XO and room correction along with time alignment of your drivers. There is the Behringer DCX2496 which is full function but not an audiophile unit. Other pro audio digital crossovers are available but you are paying for road ready construction and features you are unlikely to need
  
  In the analog sphere there are the Pass Labs XVR which is fully adjustable and his lower cost First Watt B4. There is also Marchand which will build you a custom crossover with changeable cards. He can imitate the stock crossover in active electronic form. Bryston produces the 10B crossover in a few configurations.
  There are pro audio crossovers that vary in SQ Rane and Ashly (4th order) produce the best ones. Older Ashly units are available in 12db and 18db slopes. The latter sound much better with their ancient electrolytic caps replaced with modern low ESR ones.
  DIY project boards are available from Rod Elliot and a few others. And if you do a passive line level XO it can be built quite cheaply with boutique parts.
  
  

  ---
• You must be joking. - MikeCh 18:07:00 04/14/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  Here's a search that should at least get you pointed in the right direction.
  
  http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?searchtext=active&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=davey .
  

  ---
• RE: "changing the xovers on Maggies from passive to active?" ... - andyr 16:22:34 04/14/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  Yes, I moved to 3-way active on my MG-IIIas about 15 years ago - using Rod Elliott's P09 boards to mimic the stock slopes (18/12/12/12dB), with assistance from Davey and lspCAD. Never looked back! :-))

  Later this year, I will be replacing this analogue active XO with DSP, as I will be adding a pair of subs to my system.

  Active gives you much more dynamics, IME. However, one point that some bring up is that you should use amps from the same family - ie. the same sonic signature - otherwise you can hear the different amps as the sound moves from one driver to another. (I myself have never noticed this as I've always used amps from the one mfr - AKSA).

  
  Regards,

  Andy
  

  ---

  Edits: 04/14/15   04/14/15
• 2 way here only. - grantv 12:10:46 04/14/15 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

  External xovers gone, replaced by custom electronic xover. Internal pieces remain, at least for now.
  Plenty people here have fully gutted all passive components and run full active systems.
  All positive results, no negative to my ears.
  
  
  

  ---

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