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Magnepan at CES where?

98.108.143.22

I have friends there and I was going to have them wander over and take pictures of the supposed new maggies, but when I searched CES to find what room/booth magnepan was in, they don't show up in the exhibitor directory or anywhere at CES that I could find.

what's the dealio!

Follow Ups:

RE: Magnepan at CES where? - devmali 21:19:37 07/20/10 (0)
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/lasvegas2009/jan10d/magnepan_demo3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/lasvegas2009/df_jan11mm.html&usg=__qeHV7u27wVPqsZpDyPriaAuBDR8=&h=467&w=700&sz=126&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=tdfsuY2ZuARt8M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnew%2Bmagnepan%2Bspeaker%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D849%26tbs%3Disch:1

try this link
In the search of Music not Noise.
RE: Magnepan at CES where? - NurEinTier 07:06:17 09/02/09 (0)
Any news on the mini or woofer?
Release year?
Euro price?
Will that be the woofer's final shape? Cause I find it very old-fashioned looking.
longest thread? - mbnx01 18:04:01 01/16/09 (0)
Well, is it? If not it must be close.
RE: Magnepan at CES where? - MaggieLover 09:56:36 01/15/09 (12)
This all sounds exciting. I've actually read all 123 posts in this thread (at this writing) and would hope that for Magnepan's sake and our's, that this new speaker is everything those who heard it say it is.
Sound quality in rooms at HiFi shows is generally not optimum. Those manufacturers with better rooms or products that take advantage of the room limitations often shine when compared to other rooms that sound so dismal.
I've never been to the CES, but I've been to the bi annual hifi show in New York on a few occassions and after hours of hearing great and not so great systems my own ability to resolve nuamces is impacted.
While I am not disputing the opinions of anyone who heard these speakers first hand, I do offer the following thoughts for consideration:
1. As Maggies fans we are always looking for a new and excitig ways to make our Maggies more life like and are therefore somewhat predisposed to be excited about a new Magnepan offering, espcially a tiny one that sounds good
2. As we all know, room and speaker interaction is critical to great Maggie sound. (Near field listening aside). It may be true of these mini Maggies as well. Given the positioning of these speakers in this spacious room, I wonder whether they would be as exciting in a smallish room.
3. These speakers were using powerful, and I believe very expensive, Bryston monoblocks and preamp. I'm not sure which CD player was used. How much of the resulting sound can ne attributed to the electronics?
4. As some have mentioned, this was a controlled demo. Ir would have been more telling if listeners could have played recordings they were more familiar with.
5. I wonder how a stock pair of 1.6's or 3.6's would have sounded set up in that same room, with the same amplification, and with a curtain in front of them. Don't discount the theatrical nature of the event.

I do not doubt what others heard, but it is my conservative nature which suggests that we refrain from getting too excited about this prototype product just yet. Some here would plunk dowm significant hard cash, sight unseen, for this new system. Some have called it a 20.1 beater, or a 1.6 beater based on a limited demo and their aural memories of their own system in a different room with different electronics.
When this product comes to market and can be evaluated and compared to other Maggies in an uncontolled environment, and still comes up on top, then I'll start to get excited. Until then I hope calmer heads prevail.

Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
Mark

Edits: 01/15/09
- RE: Magnepan at CES where? - Cory M. 11:33:37 01/15/09 (1)
  Well said, Mark. I was thinking along the same lines. A few here are just ecstatic, but the John Atkinson/ Stereophile coverage gives a far more conservative opinion. I'm thinking that it must rate somewhere in between.
  
  I'm sure that they do sound very good, but quite a few factors have to be figured in to determine their true nature in various end consumer environments.
  
  I, for one wouldn't mind if they made them a little larger, they look like an ackward square. Maybe twice the size even. Do you think they were doing a complete 180 and trying to push the small size envelope with these things?
  
  Cory
  - a friend of mine was there - mbnx01 11:49:17 01/15/09 (0)
    He said they was amazing and everyone was talking about them.
- My prejudice against Bryston is from the 4B-ST. - Al Sekela 11:26:24 01/15/09 (0)
  I wonder how much better the new designs really are. They are a solid, conservative operation much like Magnepan, so I expect similar, glacially-slow incremental product improvements.
  
  It says a lot for the demo to me that people liked the sound even with Bryston electronics.
  
  The new design changes the room interaction. Smaller midrange and treble drivers look more like point sources to the room, so ceiling and floor interactions become more important. If the bass cabinets require boundary reinforcement, then they will have to be placed closer to the wall behind them in many setups. This is all good and bad news for non-audiophile spouses: the big, imposing speakers out in the room were tough to accept, so the cute little ones closer to the wall will be better. However, ceiling treatments may be a problem.
- RE: Magnepan at CES where? - Bibo01 10:37:48 01/15/09 (0)
  I am also rather conservative about it.
  However, Mini-Maggies have a true ribbon like 3.6 and 20.1 which should allow for a pretty good medium-high sound, probably comparable to lower Magnepan models. Furthermore, it will be very important their integration with the new woofers.
  I am also wandering about the possibility of mounting them hinged on the wall, like the MC1.
  We shall see...
- My prediction - mbnx01 10:37:38 01/15/09 (7)
  It will be 2011 before this product is available for purchase. IF THEN.
  
  I hope I'm wrong. But Magnepan takes FOREVER to bring something to market and these don't even begin to look 'done'.
  - RE: My prediction - MaggieLover 13:05:31 01/15/09 (6)
    While I wouldn't want to venture an opinion on the date, based up various statements attributed to Wendell, it would seem a summer 2009 release may be very premature. If this is a prototype, and if they were unsure of customer reaction until the CES, and they are still unsure of pricing and marketing strategy, they may well take a lot more time before the market sees them.
    
    I think they will also have to modify their marketing approach to meet the growing HT market rather than just serve the shrinking 2 channel stereo market. That means a center channel which will go deep enough to do justice to male voices along with front and rear channels in perhaps an integarted package. Also for HT, and extra sub (a real one) will be required. Perhaps they have a larger version of the stand-alone woofer already in development.
    
    They are not going to start changing the production floor in any major way until they feel comfortable with marketing these new speakers.
    
    Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
    
    Mark
    - Judas Priest, not again - mbnx01 14:08:43 01/15/09 (5)
      Magnepan's bread and butter is two-channel stereo. I would hate to see an exciting new product from them delayed while they fiddle-fart around with trying to make it into a home theater product.
      
      I LOVE home theater. But I LOVE my 2-channel system MORE.
      - RE: Judas Priest, not again - MaggieLover 15:23:15 01/15/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Judas Priest, not again posted by mbnx01 on January 15, 2009 at 14:08:43
        
        I don't disagree with you, but its a business and they need to make a profit and grow to survive.
        
        I too favor two channel stereo, but the overall design, size, and potentially modest cost of these new speakers could allow Magnepan to be more competitive in the HT market than they are with their current HT offerings. If it were my business, that's what I'd be considering.
        
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        RE: Judas Priest, not again - mbnx01 15:31:25 01/15/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Judas Priest, not again posted by MaggieLover on January 15, 2009 at 15:23:15
        
        Magnepan has been stupidly (my opinion) chasing after the 'home theater' market for YEARS while ignoring their bread and butter, the 2-channel audiophile.
        
        I know a good local dealer who was not allowed to carry the line because 'he didn't have enough home theater'. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
        
        Magnepans just aren't that good at home theater. There, I said it. They are directional, need huge amounts of room, are very inefficient, don't blend well with subwoofers, on and on. Yes, many people have a nice little magnepan HT. Some people have huge rooms with Gigabuck 3.6 systems. But 90% of the home theater market (normal people, normal rooms) would NOT really benefit from Magnepans in their home theater.
        
        But they ARE REALLY GOOD for 2-channel stereo. You know, music. I wish White Bear Lake would concentrate on their core market for awhile. It is always a mistake to ignore your core market and chase after the 'pie in the sky' of something that just ain't gonna happen.
        
        RE: Judas Priest, not again - MaggieLover 20:58:07 01/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Judas Priest, not again posted by mbnx01 on January 15, 2009 at 15:31:25
        
        Again we agree, but perhaps a smaller more easily placed model like this will get them in the game. Remember beyond any opinions you or I might have Magnepan is first and formost a business with the intention of being profitable.
        
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        RE: Judas Priest, not again - AJZepp 20:55:22 01/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Judas Priest, not again posted by mbnx01 on January 15, 2009 at 15:31:25
        
        I disagree about Maggies and HT. The God's honest truth is that I just went back to Maggies mainly BECAUSE of their abilities with HT.
        
        What we're missing here is a qualification of the HT experience. Are Maggies the best choice if what you're after are huge explosions, massive SPLs, etc? If so, then yeah, Maggies probably aren't the best choice. But if what you're after is an immersive movie experience where dialogue is crystal clear, sound effects are so realistic and detailed that it creates the illusion that you're actually in the environment depicted on screen, etc, then Maggies can make for a kick ass HT experience.
        
        I don't take delivery on my Mye stands until next week, but from what I'm told if you stabilize the panels and give them enough current, you aren't sacrificing all that much in terms of macrodynamics anyway. In my opinion, Magnepan is redefining the HT experience!
        
        I think Magnepan has the same idea you do- - Cory M. 17:41:14 01/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Judas Priest, not again posted by mbnx01 on January 15, 2009 at 15:31:25
        
        They LOVE home theater. But they LOVE their 2-channel MORE.
        
        In today's audio marketplace, to be anything other than a speck in the wind, you've gotta do some HT. The better they do there, the more equity they have to put into 2 channel reference audio. So, I believe it works out better for everyone. Except that dealer. And Maggies are good at HT, the clarity is addicting.
        
        Cory
The price... - slapshot 17:24:24 01/13/09 (1)
...should be a proportion of the size; if 1.6s cost $1800 or so, the new speakers about one fifth the size and, therefore, should cost $360. All those in favor, say "aye"! :)
- RE: The price... - 6sigma 20:15:47 01/13/09 (0)
  Magnepan is actually faced with an interesting business problem. Scattered among the many factors used to price a manufacturer's products are these:
  - What percentage of sales and profit currently come from dealers?
  - What percentage of costs come from dealers?
  - How do those numbers compare to direct sales of products?
  - Do you price the mini-maggie with or without bundled woofers?
  - How does the current economic downturn impact the decision to price a product which might undercut other products in your line-up?
  - Is there any technological breakthrough in these tiny speakers that might be applied to improve the rest of the line, thereby allowing some price elasticity in the future?
  - How fast can these be made, packaged and shipped, and is that a business model Magnepan wants to pursue?
  I suspect there have been interesting debates. With some hard numbers it's a fascinating problem to tackle.
  Did you hear that?
Curious how they (one) would be as.. - jharris 08:00:14 01/13/09 (4)
.. a center channel?
- Center channel - joeljoel1947 08:25:04 01/13/09 (2)
  I asked this specific question to Wendell. He said it would work great, but you HAVE to use one of the "woofers" with it. The mini maggie only goes to 300Hz so speaking voices, especially male would sound too thin without the woofer.
  
  Personally, I would like to use 7 of these little things in a 7.1 setup. In that scenario, Wendell said I would need to buy 4 of the $500 "woofers" as there are 2 channels inside each woofer bin and 2x4=8 channels of woofer.
  Regards,
  Joel
  - RE: Center channel - AJZepp 08:58:53 01/13/09 (1)
    wow, even buying four of those woofer modules at $500, if the mini-Maggies end up being reasonable in terms of price, you could put together one heckuva 7.1 rig for not a ton of money. On top of that, it wouldn't take up a lot of space. I can't wait to see where the guys (and gals) at Magnepan take this thing.
    - Agreed! - joeljoel1947 09:38:00 01/13/09 (0)
      The "woofers" are reasonably priced, thankfully. Keep in mind the $500 is for a bare bones model and does not come with the glass look or lamp. My thought personally was, "who cares about those things?"
      
      So as long as they don't get greedy on thos sats, you could assemble a WORLD CLASS setup (HT or music) for a very reasonable price.
      Regards,
      Joel
- RE: Curious how they (one) would be as.. - AJZepp 08:04:51 01/13/09 (0)
  That's what I was thinking...this is one intriguing little speaker!
Here's a pic - stevenk 22:13:40 01/12/09 (19)
Amazing!!!
- I'm drooling. - neolith 15:15:26 01/13/09 (0)
  I showed them to my wife and her comment was "I want you to want these!" This is from a significant other who complains about by Grado earphones because she can hear them through the open baffle.
  
  I may be an egoist but at least I don't talk about other people.
- Here's the full page from Soundstage... with more pics - krikor 13:03:01 01/13/09 (2)
  Contrary to what is indicated in Soundstage's description, the woofers (not subwoofers) are the end table looking thing with the lamp on it as opposed to the "stands" under the mini-mags. Easy mistake considering how nice those woofers look. I can't wait to hear these things!
  
  Stereophile has a somewhat more tempered review of the room:
  
  "Hmm. The sound was spacious, with a well-defined soundstage. The balance was a little lightweight, though lows extended down to the mid-bass. The system was having to work hard to produce high spls, as the Bryston amps' red clip LEDs were occasionally flashing on snare-drum transients, but there was no other signs of strain."
  
  I love the concept of this setup and it would work much better visually in my home, though I may have to reconsider my amplification considering a pair of Bryston monoblocks was being pushed to clipping.
  
  I also wonder if it wouldn't help to make the mini-mags just a bit larger. It seems they could be a bit taller or wider and still fall with in the stand-mountend monitor category.
  
  Initiative comes to those who wait.
  - Alex, "A Clockwork Orange"
  - Soundstage Coverage (Open in New Window)
  - So in reality... - delaney@rea-alp.com 08:52:27 01/14/09 (0)
    the Mini Maggies have been around for a couple of years....Are they deciding now to produce them? Or not? I sure hope they can come up with a more interesting looking product than the rough version out at CES. Maybe some mini-Mye stands would help??? Grant--get on it!
  - Quote it!!!! - joeljoel1947 17:19:48 01/13/09 (0)
    From the SS writeup:
    Interestingly, as we were being seated, someone from the previous demo was telling Wendell, "I own 20.1s and they don't sound this good." More of Wendell's marketing trickery? Nah, couldn't be.
    
    Exacly how I felt about my 1.6's but to a much greater extent obviously!!!
    
    Regards,
    Joel
- wow; what a great time to be into audio! -nt - Green Lantern 11:34:15 01/13/09 (1)
  .
  - RE: wow; what a great time to be into audio! -nt - AJZepp 07:44:56 01/14/09 (0)
    Darn right, GL! I love all the quality offerings available from the more prominent manufacturers, while also having much more access to some of the great products available from smaller companies. My preamp is from Mapletree Audio Design, and my DAC is from Tube Audio Design...ten years ago I wouldn't have heard of either company!
    
    This hobby rules!
- I am buying these. - mbnx01 06:50:11 01/13/09 (7)
  Unless the price is nuts I am absolutely buying these.
  
  I don't like the high frequencies on MG12's and don't have room for 1.6's. These, I want. Badly. I would buy them sight unheard for a reasonable price (two grand?)
  
  -M
  - Do you pay list price for a car - fin1bxn@msn.com 07:36:50 01/13/09 (6)
    Why would you volunteer to offer 2K. This hurts all the people that cant afford that.
    
    Now that the buzz it out and the manufacture hears people are willing to pay 2k they just might sell them for that.
    
    Maybe they originally planned to market and sell them for $495 since they require les material than a MMG and you have to buy a $500 woofer separately
    
    I certanly wouldnt spend 2K knowing a 1.6 costs $1800
    - RE: Do you pay list price for a car - mbnx01 08:24:25 01/13/09 (5)
      I have no doubt I will pay list price for these. I'm sure there will be a waiting list...why discount?
      - RE: Do you pay list price for a car - Norman M 09:38:01 01/13/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Do you pay list price for a car posted by mbnx01 on January 13, 2009 at 08:24:25
        
        The first persons to get them has to be their dealers who must then be able to wire and set them up favorably in a show room. Do you envisage long lines outside their shops when they will be ready for pick-up and take home? If these are in fact as great as touted won't thay have to kill or lower the production runs of all the other models in their line. Unless they can then be priced high enough, wouldn't this amount to commiting suicide?
        
        Trust me, they FEAR this very thing you mention. - joeljoel1947 17:15:45 01/13/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Do you pay list price for a car posted by Norman M on January 13, 2009 at 09:38:01
        
        They kept asking us (the crowd) for advice on what to do---both how to price and how to market them. Wendell said they are leaning towards internet direct sales, just like the MMG.
        
        Because they DON'T want to kill off the MMG, the 1.6 and all the other quasi-ribbon affordable speakers in their line. That gives ME the fear that they will price them at a point high enough to overcome that. Even if they sound better then the 3.6's, if they were priced the SAME, which would you buy? I have a hard time thinking the mini maggie would be your choice, unless you were REALLY space constrained.
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        I'm telling you - mbnx01 19:05:30 01/13/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Trust me, they FEAR this very thing you mention. posted by joeljoel1947 on January 13, 2009 at 17:15:45
        
        If I were a Magnepan dealer and they sold these internet direct only... I'd be very concerned.
        
        I support a product line, I want the new product to bring customers into my store.
        
        Of course, speaking as a customer I think most audio dealers are useless clowns and I would love to buy these direct from Magnepan.
        
        Tis a puzzlement.
        
        Tradeoffs - joeljoel1947 06:43:59 01/14/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'm telling you posted by mbnx01 on January 13, 2009 at 19:05:30
        
        It is a problem, but its a good problem to have if your Magnepan. Having some product like this come along is a once in a lifetime like thing.
        
        I told Wendell the exact thing you mention: can the dealers set these things up right? I think they COULD, but will they WANT TO if they are cheaply priced? They want to move the pricier spread.
        
        I say, sell them direct initially and see how it shakes out with the dealers and the rest of your product lines sales. Then go from there...
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        RE: Tradeoffs - mbnx01 06:51:37 01/14/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tradeoffs posted by joeljoel1947 on January 14, 2009 at 06:43:59
        
        With the buzz on these they could probably have direct sales orders that would exceed their manufacturing capability. So maybe they should go that way?
- RE: Here's a pic - Gunga 23:20:07 01/12/09 (1)
  Here's some more info...plus a pic of Wendell holding it up while standing next to a 3.6R (I think? Or maybe it's a 20.1?)
  - Mini-Mag (or should that be micro-mag?) (Open in New Window)
  - Coming out this summer... - Gunga 23:23:48 01/12/09 (0)
    Here's a quote from the link in my previous post:
    
    "Now you would all like to know how much these babies will cost and when they will be available. I cannot answer the first question, and neither can Magnepan. Pricing has yet to be determined, so one last mystery remains. But only until this Summer, when both the Mini and the bass unit will hit the market. Presumably, by then they�ll have a price tag. Let�s hope for yet another pleasant surprise."
- LMAO!! - AJZepp 22:54:20 01/12/09 (0)
  LOOK at those little things...I just want to pick them up and give them a hug! lol
  
  I can't wait to hear these little guys!
- Thanks - EmailTim 22:39:37 01/12/09 (1)
  Thanks for the pict. Looks like they would make nice HT speakers.
  
  Is that the subwoofer on the left edge of the picture under the table lamp?
  
  Magnpan should make push-pull driver upgrades for the 3 series. If they work in this configuration, they should work in 3.6's.
  
  Tim
  - RE: Thanks - stevenk 22:57:16 01/12/09 (0)
    YEs that's one of the subs. The great thing about these, other than the fantastic performance, is they should be relatively inexpensive to build simply due to the small size of the magnet arrays, ribbon and mylar diaphragm. There is simply less material than any other maggie. It's also great that the crossovers are loaded in boxes--makes parts upgrades a cinch without messing with the panels.
    
    It would be nice if they could be made more efficient. 1000wpc is heady especially for us tube lovers. I would bet they still sound pretty good with less power though. This is really an exciting development for Magnepan--probably their best since the true ribbon.
The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! - joeljoel1947 12:55:32 01/12/09 (32)
Well, I'm still trying to work through my head what I witnessed at THE Show in the Magnepan room. So much so, that I went to the "mystery speaker" demo a total of 3 times during my trip.

Now, I will say right up front that of any room at either the Venetian or Alexis Park, Magnepan had the best actual ROOM to work with (maybe the TAD room was close though at the Venetian). Very large, but not TOO large, optimum seating, optimum setup, normal height ceilings, etc. So they had a significant "advantage" over the other demo rooms in Vegas. I was speaking with them and they have used this same room for a few shows now (they were there last year too) because they like its acoustics a whole bunch. I heard nothing to dismiss their beliefs!

Anyhow, the long and short of it was this setup was the best my friends and I heard in our 4 day stay, period, and regardless of cost(!). This little speaker did things that defied logic. Dynamic, full bodied, open, and some of the sweetest treble you're ever going to hear. The soundstage and overall presence was TO DIE FOR. So believable and life-size. The 1st cut they did, "Amazing Grace" literally startled me in its believability. The drum recording they did had perhaps some of the best cymbal work I've ever heard, period. I have the 1.6's in one of my systems at home and these were in a different league. Wendell Diller agreed with me. They also played LOUD (but they are not going to play as loud as say the 3.6's according to them). Like I said, the room was very big and these things FILLED IT! They also had to their advantage there 1000 watts per channel of Bryston power pumping through their veins, and were not being babied.

Real quick---- keep in mind Magnepan used their $500 "woofers" in this demo. They are planar magnetic, need to be placed near a room boundry, and extend to 40Hz. The bass woofers match PERFECTLY with the speed, clarity and definition of the baby Maggies (which on their own go to 300Hz). So, you WILL NEED to get one "woofer" for every 2 baby maggies you get (there are 2 woofers inside each $500 woofer cabinet). Your amp connects to the woofer bin and the woofer bin then goes through a xover and eventually connects to the sats (so the sats get the bass filtered out). Anyhow, the bass sounded GREAT! No boom, no smear, and extremely well integrated with the sats.

The astonishing thing was HOW LARGE they sounded. I mean, every bit as large as my 1.6's, and then some. The choral piece at the end was amazing with its height and clarity. And to see these small things is to LAUGH. About the exact size of a standard issue Dell laptop! I have always been a believer that SMALL monitors throw the best soundstage and after this demo I feel vindicated that I was RIGHT! The best part was that there was no "maggie beaming" with these. Due to the smallish size, they imaged willy-nilly and without fuss as to where you were seated, or whether you were on axis or standing up walking around the room. So many medium or smaller size ribbons or panels require you to lock your head in a vice, but this was the EXACT opposite effect here.

I only hope, as someone has mentioned, that Magnepan does not price these "stupidly". They certainly SOUNDED BETTER then speakers that were much more expensive, but I can't fathom paying more for them then say a pair of 1.6's even though somehow they do deserve to be. Of course, raving posts like this one aren't going to help the cause to keep these things reasonably priced.

During the last demo I asked Wendell what others were saying about these little things for the full 4 days and he quipped that some are placing them in the league of the 30k speakers they heard. Now ordinarily, I would say "BS" but I was THERE along with my audio friends and we heard how these things sounded compared to the "competition". 30k is about right on! I would have LIKED to hear the 20.1's right after this or during this demo because those are not valued anywhere near 30k and it would be interesting to compare these puny things to the flagships!

The funny thing is, they had no idea before they had set this thing up that it would sound THIS good. They more or less just made these things, the external xover was just nailed to a board behind the curtain, according to them. Unreal.

The only thing I will also mention is that Magnepan was in "full control" of the demo. We weren't able to play our own cd's. The reason for this though was that there was always "group demos". They would let people in, shut the door, and nobody else was allowed to enter from outside. By the time the demo was over there was always another group waiting, so it really would not have been fair to let everyone wait longer outside to play your own tunes inside. I would have loved to have heard what I brought though!

It will be a good long while before these come to market but as soon as they do, expect the 1.6 hysteria all over again.....
Regards,
Joel
- twin subs, or one? - mbnx01 07:38:52 01/13/09 (5)
  Is there one sub per each sat, or were they running only one sub?
  - There were two "woofers", one for each channel.... - joeljoel1947 07:58:33 01/13/09 (4)
    They had one of the woofers in both the right and left side of the room. Now, as there are actually 2 woofers in each container, you could actually say there were 4 total woofers playing. And, BTW they are woofers, not subs. These only go to 40Hz.
    Regards,
    Joel
    - RE: There were two "woofers", one for each channel.... - Norman M 09:28:45 01/13/09 (3)
      So I presume these woofers were playing "stereo". To my meager understanding, that's the more important of the issues here.
      - Yep, stereo "woofers"! - joeljoel1947 09:41:59 01/13/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: There were two "woofers", one for each channel.... posted by Norman M on January 13, 2009 at 09:28:45
        
        Forgot to mention that, great question and point. They wre using Bryston 1000w monoblocks. Each channel of Bryston power ran into their relative side "woofer" and then the woofer ran through the xover and up to the sat. It was stereo from top to bottom.
        
        That was another "advantage" they had here to minimize localization. Preserving stereo into the bass with your subs is touted by many, including myself!!
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        still confused about the two woofers... - mbnx01 07:20:06 01/14/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep, stereo "woofers"! posted by joeljoel1947 on January 13, 2009 at 09:41:59
        
        The mini's were sitting on some sort of wood contraption, but those were NOT the woofers, right?
        
        The woofer is the really skinny thing in the corner with the lamp on it. I've read some threads where people say there was only one woofer. So those BIG boxes the speakers were on were just something to sit them on, right? And there were TWO of the skinny subwoofer boxes behind the speakers?
        
        RE: still confused about the two woofers... - joeljoel1947 08:09:11 01/14/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: still confused about the two woofers... posted by mbnx01 on January 14, 2009 at 07:20:06
        
        The wood is just stands. Inside is the xover.
        
        The end table with lamp is the woofer. There were two of these---the one you see and another you don't right next to the other speaker.
        
        Magnepan did not light the other woofer, which is why many are writing there was only one. But there were two--this was asked in 2 of my 3 demos and Wendell even pointed out the "non-lit one" when asked.
        Regards,
        Joel
- Cannot work with two sats crossed to one sub at 300Hz - sdv5 01:26:32 01/13/09 (5)
  Sub-sat combo cannot possibly work if the crossover is set at 300 Hz. Perhaps, if you choose music carefully you can deliver an impressive demo. However, male voices go down to 80 Hz, and there is simply too much important content between 100 Hz and 300 Hz to be left to a sub tucked in the corner of the room. With any opera recording, the soundstage would collapse completely with obvious sub localization.
  
  Sorry, the idea sounds intriguing but it cannot be done. It may work for certain music and for a little while; however, I suspect that the compromise will be unacceptable for the majority of listeners in the long run. Nothing personal, it's just the laws of physics.
  - It worked with two sats crossed to two woofers at 300Hz - joeljoel1947 08:47:41 01/13/09 (3)
    Believe me, I thought the same thing as you did when I saw the setup and learned the facts afterwards. As a DIY loudspeaker designer, rule #256 is that you CANNOT cross to a sub above 100Hz (preferrably 80Hz) due to localization. I think I know why they were able to pull it off.....
    
    The integration was seemless and that was using demo material which had lowish solo voices being used (hear Amazing Grace done well lately?) and also male speaking voice (during the drum solo, the drummer begins speaking and asking questions to the engineer recording him). Let me tell you, that drummers voice came from way back in the stage, placed perfectly behind the drum kit. Also, the female vocalists voice in "Amazing Grace" was as full bodied as I heard as ANYTHING at the show. It sounded like she was THERE. This is in sharp contrast to the thin, bright, and lean sound that most loudspeaker manufacturers get at CES with its poor conditions.
    
    I think the thing helping the demo was their choice to use 2 of the woofer bins, in a stereo setup right next to the sats. This obviously "fixed" the issue of having possible localization that may have happened with just 1 of their woofers off to the corner. Using one, would most likely have caused vocals to be pulled that way.
    
    The second thing helping was their use of "planar magnetic" woofers as opposed to traditional types. I have always sort of rolled my eyes when Magnepan gets on their soapbox and proclaims, "no sub in the world can integrate well with our speakers". Well, Wendell got on that same soapbox during the demo, and again, I rolled my eyes. He spoke of how they tried several dynamic woofers, even $2k each types with the mini-mags, and STILL were not happy with the results and integration. You see, I have had tremendous success mating Maggies to traditional dynamic subs in my lifetime, so I have always sort of scoffed this whole thing off. Well, I was wrong. The overall sound was like one large panel, not 4 seperate sources. I really think they ARE on to something then in their use of the "planar magnetic" woofers as the integration from top to bottom was PERFECT. So, I don't know, maybe somehow using "planar magnetic" woofers helps to minimize the effect of localization that we have all come to expect with a setup like this crossed a 3 times higher a frequency then what we know to be "correct".
    
    I read reviewer Alan Taffel's mini-review linked above and he states the same thing I heard:
    "I must say that while I was truly surprised at the form factor of the Mini-Maggie, I was dumbfounded to learn that I had been listening to anything other than a single, integrated speaker. Magnepan ensured the seamless blend between these (now two) mystery speakers by making them both ribbon drivers. They had tried mating the new sats with cone woofers, with the unsurprising result that the dynamic drivers simply could not keep up with the ribbons. So the company figured out how to make a ribbon woofer that didn�t tower over one�s head. The common technology and gentle driver rolloff slopes ensured the uncannily natural blend I heard."
    
    So I guess to say it "Cannot Work" would be a bit short-minded. It DID work, too bad you weren't there to witness it!!!
    
    Regards,
    Joel
    - Two subs make a huge difference relative to one - sdv5 10:27:21 01/13/09 (2)
      Sorry for the confusion. I thought the set-up was based on one sub with two sats. In your initial write-up, you were actually very specific about that:
      
      "So, you WILL NEED to get one "woofer" for every 2 baby maggies you get (there are 2 woofers inside each $500 woofer cabinet). Your amp connects to the woofer bin and the woofer bin then goes through a xover and eventually connects to the sats (so the sats get the bass filtered out). Anyhow, the bass sounded GREAT! No boom, no smear, and extremely well integrated with the sats."
      
      My position is that this set-up (one sub and two sats) cannot possibly work. If you have dual subs (one per channel), then the situation is completely different as each channel is now capable of handling the full frequency spectrum. You can then fine tune the sub-sat position per channel, and get really good integration with no soundstage collapse or sub localization.
      
      Therefore, two subs and two sats sounds very promising indeed, and I am glad that they used that set-up for the show demo. One sub with two sats would most likely provide for poor sound with a lot of music.
      
      The bigger question is how Magnepan would market a system like this. If you wanted an HT set-up based on this approach, then you would need another sub-sat combo for the center channel. With six separate physical enclosures arranged around the display, the room would get busy with speakers and cables. Not exactly the simple solution that most people are looking for. And Magnepan must go to market with their HT hat on because that's where the money is.
      
      When can Magnepan bring these speakers to market? There was talk about this summer; however, Magnepan's track record in situations like these has been lackluster. Consider the Maggie sub. How long has Magnepan been toying with the concept and showing pictures and prototypes at shows? What happened to CCR, the long awaited center channel with true ribbon driver? Perhaps, given the overwhelmingly positive response from the CES 2009 show, Magnepan may decide to go to market very quickly, and release (finally!) the sub with Mini Maggies this summer. If so, I suspect the price for two subs and two sats would be at least $2k.
      
      If Mini Maggie ever sees the light of day, there will also be an opportunity for Mye Sound to design new stands that can accommodate the sub-sat combination.
      - Yep, not the best wording on my part. - joeljoel1947 11:07:41 01/13/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two subs make a huge difference relative to one posted by sdv5 on January 13, 2009 at 10:27:21
        
        Sorry for the confusion too. When I said "woofers" it was plural but I should of said, "Two of the woofers in a stereo arrangement". And when I said you "WILL NEED to get one "woofer" for every 2 baby maggies you get" well, that is still true but not OPTIMUM like the demo they set up. You COULD plunk just one of the woofers in the corner (it has two channels of woofer in each one) and both sats will run off of it filtered at 300Hz, HOWEVER, as you correctly point out that would not be a good thing @ 300Hz. Ideally, you need two of those woofers.
        
        Keep in mind though, the "woofers" are totally PASSIVE. There is no amp inside them. So "fine-tuning" will be somewhat limited there. Plus you are running a lot more wires around the room, especially in a HT environment---you are spot on there. For a 7.1 rig, you would need to buy 4 of the "woofers" so that each channel of mini-maggie has something to work off of. Then, for the HT crowd, what do you do below 40Hz where the woofers roll off? If you're not a bass-head, I guess thats OK, but for movies a bit deeper would be nice as "IMPACT" is more in need for movies IMHO. Perhaps get a dynamic sub is an answer and cross it as low as it can go at a high filter rate like 24/dB octave and run that as your .1
        
        I am actually shocked to see the summer mentioned as a release date. That was NOT the vibe I was getting in the demos from Wendell. He said they more or less threw these things together and packed them in their luggage to see what the masses thought! Listening "between the lines" to him, I was thinking they would debut for sale at CES 2010! He told us the woofers are available for sale right now, at least thats what I thought he said.....
        
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        Woofers for sale - EmailTim 13:08:16 01/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep, not the best wording on my part. posted by joeljoel1947 on January 13, 2009 at 11:07:41
        
        I thought Magnepan already made these woofer units for some hotel project where they included motorized actuators for the MC1's. If so, they have been out for a while, but maybe not publicly available through the normal dealer networks.
        I wonder if this woofer would benefit the CC3 on the center channel???
        
        Edits: 01/13/09
  - I'm glad to see that... - wazoo 04:36:09 01/13/09 (0)
    I'm not the only one concerned about this. I agree that there is simply too much localizable sound below 300Hz for there not to be an audible disconnect between a sub at a room boundary and a pair of satellites operating with such a crossover frequency.
    
    "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
- RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! - 6sigma 19:20:43 01/12/09 (13)
  Is there any way we can get your impression of distances?
  - between speakers
  - to sidewalls
  - to rear wall
  - placement of subwoofer
  - location of gear relative to audience & speakers
  - distance from speakers to audience
  Any clues to interconnects or speaker wire? Any specifics about recordings you were listening to?
  
  Thanks.
  Did you hear that?
  - Placement and recordings used - joeljoel1947 08:19:49 01/13/09 (12)
    Well, you can get a feel from the pic above about placement. The "woofers" need to be placed close to walls to get boundry reinforcement.
    
    We were about 9 feet back from the speakers and they were about 9 feet from their front wall. Lots of room to breathe behind them! They were about 4 feet from the side walls as well. Distance between was approx. 8 feet----a good size spread.
    
    As for cables, I have no idea.
    
    Music wise, they were playing some rare demo stuff. Nothing I had heard before. The "Amazing Grace" cut was from a sampler disc from a manufacturer whose name I could not recall. I held it in my hand and told Wendell, "well, thats not going to be easy to track down now is it?" He smiled. The drum track was recorded by what I can only gather was a friend of Wendells. It is not even available. This drummer designs microphones as well according to Wendell and this was I guess his personal demo disc. So, bottom line, the stuff they were playing wasn't anything that you could easily recognize. That was the only part of the skepticism that remains with me today. Fed the right material, in the right room, you can make almost ANY loudspeaker sound good, but perhaps not THIS good. I still wish I could have played my own cuts. Maybe someone else at one of the demos got a chance to do so and I would be interested to hear from them.
    Regards,
    Joel
    - RE: Placement and recordings used - Jwm 05:30:35 01/18/09 (4)
      Amazing Grace came from An Usher CD sampler that was given out 3 years ago I believe at CES for free. I have it.
      - Willing to share ??? - EmailTim 19:47:32 01/18/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Placement and recordings used posted by Jwm on January 18, 2009 at 05:30:35
        
        Jwm,
        
        Willing to rip the CD or the track?
        
        Thanks,
        Tim
        
        RE: Willing to share ??? - Jwm 08:03:53 01/19/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Willing to share ??? posted by EmailTim on January 18, 2009 at 19:47:32
        
        Send me an email and I will make you a copy.
        
        RE: Willing to share ??? - EmailTim 08:42:04 01/19/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Willing to share ??? posted by Jwm on January 19, 2009 at 08:03:53
        
        My email is emailtim@adelphia.net. My email can only handle @ 9MB attachments. If you need to snail-mail it or ftp it, shoot me an email and we can work something out.
        
        Thanks,
        Tim
      - They were playing hip hop? - Cory M. 09:03:23 01/18/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Placement and recordings used posted by Jwm on January 18, 2009 at 05:30:35
        
        To demonstrate the capabilities of the new mini mags?
        I never knew Usher had a sampler CD.
        Just kidding, I know, the speaker company.
        What is Usher considered anyway- soul, pop, hop, rap, ?
        
        Cory
    - RE: Placement and recordings used - Simm55 19:52:29 01/14/09 (6)
      The cables were Kubala-Sosna. Someone posted that the Brystons were clipping. I didn't see any evidence of that (they put out over 1000 watts each into 8 ohms, more into 4 ohms). J. Winey's son said they didn't need such big amplifiers for the sound, only for the illusion of a big speaker system being played (the amps were visible while the speakers were hidden).
      - RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website - Travis 07:40:33 01/15/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Placement and recordings used posted by Simm55 on January 14, 2009 at 19:52:29
        
        When I went into the Magnepan room at T.H.E. Show, the speakers were hidden behind a curtain. Magnepan's Wendell Diller ushered me into the sweet spot and started playing some sounds on the all-Bryston front-end: BCD-1 CD player (which LKG raves about in our February 2009 issue), BP-26 preamp, and a pair of 7B-SST monoblocks.
        
        Hmm. The sound was spacious, with a well-defined soundstage. The balance was a little lightweight, though lows extended down to the mid-bass. The system was having to work hard to produce high spls, as the Bryston amps' red clip LEDs were occasionally flashing on snare-drum transients, but there was no other signs of strain.
        
        Imagine my surprise when Mark Winey drew back the curtain to reveal a pair of these tiny panels that he is holding in the photo. Yes, they were being helped out below 300Hz by a Magnepan subwoofer module, but they were still punching way above their class, Provisionally dubbed the "Mini Maggie," the speaker combines a ribbon tweeter with a small Magneplanar panel. Price is still to be decided, but the Mini would make a superb desktop speaker,
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
        
        RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website - Simm55 15:59:30 01/15/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website posted by Travis on January 15, 2009 at 07:40:33
        
        I thought the amplifiers were the 28B SSTsquared. I didn't actually read the faceplates, but they looked bigger than the 7B SSTs. Both are quite powerful.
        
        RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website - Travis 16:41:51 01/15/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website posted by Simm55 on January 15, 2009 at 15:59:30
        
        Does the 28B SSTsquared (gotta' love that model number) have lights indicating clipping?
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
        
        RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website - Simm55 18:03:08 01/15/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website posted by Travis on January 15, 2009 at 16:41:51
        
        No , neither does the 7B SST.
        
        RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website - Simm55 18:15:30 01/18/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website posted by Simm55 on January 15, 2009 at 18:03:08
        
        Travis e-mailed me a copy of the Bryston 7B SST manual. It does indicate clipping via its front panel light. I stand corrected.
        
        RE: Dayam. I want some of what JA is having! nt - Travis 18:08:55 01/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: From John Atkinson/Stereophile website posted by Simm55 on January 15, 2009 at 18:03:08
        
        .
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
- RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! - gcouture@bellsouth.net 18:00:10 01/12/09 (5)
  Well said, I had to go back a second time to confirm what I heard. In the entire show very few even came close to what I heard in that room. Simply amazing...
  - RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! - joeljoel1947 18:12:12 01/12/09 (4)
    Well I'm glad I wasn't the ONLY one who needed multiple trips. ;)
    
    The funny thing is, I've been scouring the net for feedback from that demo and can find almost NOTHING. I can't believe it because everyone in the demos with me were besides themselves after the demo! Yet, nobody is blogging about it yet on the normal sites. Maybe they are still sleeping......
    Regards,
    Joel
    - RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! - gcouture@bellsouth.net 18:47:00 01/12/09 (3)
      I suspect a lot of people stayed beyond the show itself (I for one am staying with friends that live here ((they have a pc)). I don't know about your demo but to a person, everyone that saw it in the 2 I was at were astonished, that is no exageration. More than 1 person that owns 3.3s and higer said they never got that kind of sound from theirs. If I wasn't there I wouldn't beleive it either.
      - "If I wasn't there I wouldn't beleive it either" - Cory M. 18:57:36 01/12/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! posted by gcouture@bellsouth.net on January 12, 2009 at 18:47:00
        
        Maybe they had another (wall- looking) curtain behind the Baby Maggies, and there sat a pair of actively tri-amped, wooden framed, Mye-standed, hot- rodded 20.1s?
        
        Cory
        
        Nope, no trickery - joeljoel1947 19:03:04 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "If I wasn't there I wouldn't beleive it either" posted by Cory M. on January 12, 2009 at 18:57:36
        
        When the light came up I could see all the way to the wall behind the speakers. Unless they went out of their way to DESIGN A MAGNEPAN WALL back there, then this demo was legit! Trust me, it certainly sounded like a 20.1. My local dealer has those set up and honestly I thought something like that was back there!
        Regards,
        Joel
      - Stunned! - joeljoel1947 18:56:19 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The baby Maggie-----Best sound of the show!! posted by gcouture@bellsouth.net on January 12, 2009 at 18:47:00
        
        Oh yeah, everyone in the demos I was at was stunned. That is why **I** am now stunned that besides my own posts, there is NOTHING on the web about this demo.
        
        There was one reviewer from Dagogo sitting next to me during one of the demos and he was totally floored. He did say though (after the lights came up of course) "oh I could tell they were no higher then 3 or 4 feet from the floor so I knew they were small". BULLSHIT! Those things were playing with much greater height then 4 feet, I think he was just saving face from being duped! My two audio dealer friends I was with have been in this business for a LONG time, and they both agreed this was the most impressive sound at the whole show. And these guys don't exactly like Maggies......
        Regards,
        Joel
RE: Magnepan at CES where? - gcouture@bellsouth.net 08:02:45 01/11/09 (14)
They aren't at CES perse. They are at T.H.E.in the Alexis (Executive ballroom). Prepare to be shocked! As stated below you weren't able to see them in the demo and they sounded fantastic. With very few exceptions, they sounded better than anything I heard at CES. I really thought it was a new flagship, the bass speed and extension was truely impressive. Treble light detailed and airy. Incredibly impressive soundstage. At one point there was a drum solo and everone in the room commented on how there had to be a kit behind that curtain. The dynamics were that good.
- best news heard in awhile... - Scott 2.6/R 08:58:35 01/12/09 (0)
  Can't wait to hear these small ribbons.
  
  Magnepan finally realizes their best asset after Jim Winey is true ribbon.
  
  However I can't believe a smaller version could produce the same image density as the 5 foot ribbon of the 20's.
  
  Could be the answer for guys with small listening rooms like myself who love the true ribbon.
  
  Scott
- price? - mbnx01 08:34:02 01/11/09 (5)
  Magnepan has the option of doing something brilliant with the price here...selling this for what it costs to make plus a reasonable markup.
  
  Or they could do as so many other hi-end companies are charge 'what the market will bear'.
  
  I certainly hope they go with option 1. We could all use some good news these days.
  - RE: price? - gcouture@bellsouth.net 08:51:05 01/12/09 (1)
    In conversation with Mark Whiney and a reviewer for some overseas mag, he said he would have a hard time exceeding the price of the 1.6s. I didn,t get a chance to ask if that included the bass module. Either way it would be a steal.
    - RE: price? - mbnx01 09:06:07 01/12/09 (0)
      I sure hope that's true. I keep reading comments from people who were there that Magnepan was asking people what they thought the price should be. I hope that doesn't indicate they're looking to take a 'what the market will bear' approach.
      
      Either way, I'm afraid it will be a long time before this product ships. I hope not, I'd order a pair of small high-performance Magnepans sight unseen.
  - well this * IS * 2009 - Green Lantern 10:18:19 01/11/09 (2)
    And a lot things come into play; ie:
    
    employee salaries, their health care, insurance, etc.,
    
    Retooling, overtime to keep up with orders etc.,
    
    Jim Winey may be frugal but he's no fool. He takes care of his crew. Evident in the since that he could've 'easily' sent his designs overseas, and assembled by folks who probably make $2 a day; shipped back here and sold for tens of thousands more (the $12K 20.1 [original price] can hold their own against ANY > $20k product..... easily ).
    
    But the man had a vision. And I'm sure his vision statement early on was to make a product worthy enough to be called the 'best' but also within the grips of the masses, the 'music lovers'.
    
    Unfortunately his vision is a dying breed in this World of greed (noting wrong with capitalism; but I'll digress).
    
    FORTUNATELY they call their own shots and don't have to kiss 'big coporate' asses from stock and shareholders who only give a $h*t about their own portfolios.
    
    Bravo Magnepan!
    - RE: well this * IS * 2009 - Jim Cate 10:14:28 01/12/09 (0)
      And a lot things come into play; ie:
      
      employee salaries, their health care, insurance, etc.,
      
      Retooling, overtime to keep up with orders etc.,
      From Green Lantern:
      
      Jim Winey may be frugal but he's no fool. He takes care of his crew. Evident in the since that he could've 'easily' sent his designs overseas, and assembled by folks who probably make $2 a day; shipped back here and sold for tens of thousands more (the $12K 20.1 [original price] can hold their own against ANY > $20k product.....easily).
      
      But the man had a vision. And I'm sure his vision statement early on was to make a product worthy enough to be called the 'best' but also within the grips of the masses, the 'music lovers'.
      
      Unfortunately his vision is a dying breed in this World of greed (noting wrong with capitalism; but I'll digress).
      
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      
      I also agree with Green Lantern. - Magnepan is one of the few speaker manufacturers that has produced truly high-end, high-fidelity speakers at rational prices for an extended period, despite increasing costs (labor, utilities, shipping, raw materials, manuf. components, taxes, insurance, fuel, etc., etc.). - I would hate to see them go under.
      
      Jim Cate
    - hear, hear - wazoo 11:57:10 01/11/09 (0)
      I agree completely, and the end of your last sentence pretty much encapsulates one of the primary undermining factors of our (market) economy.
      
      "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
      
      Edits: 01/11/09
- any pictures? n/t - Enchantment1.6s 08:16:44 01/11/09 (6)
  .
  - RE: any pictures? n/t - gcouture@bellsouth.net 08:53:20 01/12/09 (0)
    No, they are keeping it very close to the vest. I suspect when they figure out what to do with it we will see some. Trust me when I tell you, you won't believe how small they are.
  - wasn't there a pic here yesterday?? - Green Lantern 08:25:03 01/11/09 (4)
    could swear there was late last evening (or was I dreaming)..
    (and Not the decaware comparison either..)
    
    Anyway a reviewer mentioned a slightly less soundstage than he's used to hearing from Maggies (remarkable in itself considering the size of the speaker)..
    Can we expect an entire line of these license plate sized speakers to replace the exsiting behemoth panels?
    Why not, wouldn't it make business sense from a aspect ratio point of view?
    
    Edits: 01/11/09 01/11/09
    - It was a fake - Joe Schmo 12:54:10 01/11/09 (2)
      -Joe
      
      They're not that big!
      - --whew-- - Green Lantern 13:04:38 01/11/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: It was a fake posted by Joe Schmo on January 11, 2009 at 12:54:10
        
        it's gonna take a LOT of booze and therapy to forget THAT scene!
        
        thanks for the laf!
        
        LMAO! (nt) - AJZepp 13:09:00 01/11/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: --whew-- posted by Green Lantern on January 11, 2009 at 13:04:38
        
        x
    - no picture - wazoo 12:01:43 01/11/09 (0)
      There was/is a great description that paints a picture in my mind, but I don't recall actually seeing a real picture.
      
      "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
Link to ..... - Joe Schmo 04:16:27 01/11/09 (0)
-Joe

They're not that big!
- Another sighting! (Open in New Window)
RE: Magnepan at CES where? - JAMES M. CATE 18:21:48 01/10/09 (7)
Does anyone know whether the new speakers could be used as a center speaker in a HT setup? Or are they still planning to produce a new CR ribboned center?

Jim
- CCR - AJZepp 01:20:33 01/11/09 (4)
  I spoke with Wendell last week when I called to throw some 3.6 questions at him. He said the CCR is DEFINITELY coming out within the next few months.
  - RE: CCR - kmmd 01:51:50 01/11/09 (3)
    Oh boy. I gotta come up with another excuse to the wife for this center channel. Anyone want a Black/Cherry CC3 ?
    
    Ken
    - RE: CCR - AJZepp 03:09:03 01/11/09 (2)
      lol...maybe it'll look just like the CC3 and she won't even notice if you just swap it out :)
      
      I know my dealer said he's got a whole list of Maggie owners who have been chomping at the bit to get the CCR in their rigs. I expect it'll be a pretty amazing front stage when added to the 3.6s!
      - RE: CCR - kmmd 05:49:15 01/11/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: CCR posted by AJZepp on January 11, 2009 at 03:09:03
        
        Gosh, I hope it'll be that easy, but I suspect that the CCR will be larger than the CC3. Hopefully it'll have a low frequency cut-off of 40Hz or so.
        
        Ken
        
        RE: CCR - gcouture@bellsouth.net 08:57:14 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: CCR posted by kmmd on January 11, 2009 at 05:49:15
        
        I saw the prototype at the show, it is a cc3 mounted on top of a 2 x 2 (approx) panel. It looks pretty cool.
- RE: Magnepan at CES where? - KKM 20:59:02 01/10/09 (0)
  Probably not by itself since it only goes down to 300 Hz. Would've thought that the ribboned center would be out by now since they showed it at the last CES.
- RE: Magnepan at CES where? - JAMES M. CATE 18:32:07 01/10/09 (0)
  ribbon
RE: Magnepan at CES where? - Neuro 17:44:05 01/09/09 (48)
According to T.H.E. Show's page , Magnepan is in the Alexis Park Lobby.

-- Nils
- From an imate attending the CES . . . - Opus 104 19:26:12 01/09/09 (46)
  "Best sound so far? Well, no doubt about this one. Magnepan had a huge screen blocking the view of some new speakers they are coming to market with. We listened to the ten minute demo and could not see what we were hearing. As a magnepan owner, very familiar with the Maggie sound, I thought they sounded MUCH better then my 1.6s, whatever they were. Very open, warm, lifelike and spacious. The bass was deep, tight and full. So the demo ends and they ask what we think before unveiling them from the curtain. They sounded so good, I honestly thought we were listening to a new flagship speaker from them. Nope. Lights came on and back there were a pair of the smallest and cutest maggies Ive ever seen. Maybe a foot high and six inches wide on top of some two foot stands!!! The company is dumbfounded by what they have designed (they actually stumbled on to it by trying to make computer speakers for the desktop) and has no idea how to price or market
  them because they also feel they are better then half their lineup. They asked us for help!!!!! Basically they are using the true ribbon tweeter and midrange used in their flagship speaker, but on a tiny scale! The mini maggies only go down to 300 hertz so They also used in the demo two magnepan woofers, for the bass, which are basically hunks off the 20.1 flagship. The planar magnetic woofers will list for 500 dollars and are passive and go to 40 hertz. This demo had myself, Bob and Jeff literally flipping out. Its all we talked about at dinner. Magnepan has no idea on how to price the mini maggies so I dont know what they will list for Other will be inexpensive though because of what a consumers perception of what your getting size wise) but Im already thinking of how to sell my huge 1.6 maggies so I can get these dinky things!!!!! Goes to show again that small and simple monitors like this one are the way to go sometimes."
  
  "If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way." - Unknown
  - DeHavilland used to show with the Alon Lotus Elite Signature - Al Sekela 10:55:22 01/12/09 (0)
    (the speaker with more names than a medieval princess), which has the tweeter and midrange mounted on an open baffle. The sound was exquisite, even in a show venue. There is a lot of benefit to small dipole mid/tweeter arrangements. Losing the line source geometry is not the end of civilization.
    
    The dipole bass will still require a lot of turf in the listening room, so the temptation will be to mate the small Maggies with small subs. I would like to see Duke get involved with his multiple sub technology.
    - Nola speakers (Open in New Window)
  - Some Thoughts - Peter Gunn 07:51:12 01/12/09 (16)
    First, I think it's rather funny that their biggest breakthru (at least supposedly) in 40 years was a complete accident.
    
    My own work showed me that size is not a deterring factor in the kind of performance you can get out of these speakers and I had to fight many wars on here getting that point across. I suppose if this is what these things are and they do become popular, it will finally put the last nail in that coffin.
    
    I bought a pair of MG-I's once that I even got to hear before buying, and which sounded good, and I got them home to find only 6" of wire still attached in the middle. So I too heard and liked a 6" by 12" maggie on 2 foot stands :^ )
    
    Thoreau said to simplify and I agree, especially where maggies are concerned. It is interesting after 40 years of making things bigger and bigger that magnepan itself finally had this eye opener. Now if someone could just get them to try something besides rat shack wire....
    
    All that said, if I were a 1.6 or 3 series owner I would not be rushing to get my audiogon ad ready just yet.... As I said, small maggies are capable of sounding much better than many people believed, however that sound is not the same kind of sound one gets from the bigger ones.
    
    I love modded MMG's and could be very happy with them. However I prefer modded 1.6's and I prefer still the 2.7's. No matter how nice these new things sound there is no way they do what those modded 2.7's did. If it turns out a modded 3 does the same thing... enough said.
    
    I think what these new ones excell at is they are playing and behaving like a single full range Fostex or Lowther speaker, and that is a very, VERY musical ride, and yes, compared to a stock 1.6 I would take the new one too.
    
    However once the smoke clears, enthusiasm fades and reality kicks in these will be relegated to those who have space issues I believe. In any event it's clear they must have the maggie sub modules with them to perform properly, so even if they price these things at $1,500 a pair, once you add the subs in it's not going to be a bargain like the MMG. It will probably be closer to a 3.6, and if the 3.6 can be made magical it eliminates this new one except for those with space issues.
    
    What's really funny is I was going to try to do this very thing. I was going to take the busted and broken MG-I's I got and try to make small "computer maggies" out of them, only I never had the time.
    
    As always I wish magnepan the best of luck. They need it to survive in this world, and we need them. I'm looking forward to seeing these things, and I can hardly wait for the messed up model number they assign them.
    
    The MGS 6.7/8ths
    
    It's all about the music...
    - RE: Some Thoughts - Norman M 18:28:51 01/14/09 (1)
      On that size issue, my MMG is no match for either my 3.6, and neither is my 3.6 for my Tymp IVa, so IME size does matter.
      - RE: Some Thoughts - Peter Gunn 19:12:54 01/14/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Thoughts posted by Norman M on January 14, 2009 at 18:28:51
        
        Size only matters inasmuch as it absolutely changes the presentation.
        
        I am also not talking about stock speakers, only ones that have been fully modded.
        
        Once that is done there are of course things the 1.6 does the MMG does not, but there are things the MMG does the 1.6 cannot, and many people prefer the presentation of the MMG. Since these new maggies in question would certainly mimmick that sound it is understandable to me what people hear and like about them.
        
        That said there are issues of bass reproduction, soundstaging and detail retrieval that get more and more enhanced the larger one goes. That's the physics of it and nothing is going to change that, which is why I said if people prefer that aspect then these new little mags are not going to hold much interest for them.
        
        It's all about the music...
    - RE: Some Thoughts - rpcoins 11:22:57 01/12/09 (10)
      Has anyone considered WHY they chose 1000 watt amps for the demonstration? How much quality current will these speakers need would be a question that comes to mind. I know Maggies love current and can handle a substantial amount, but this seems a mismatch for small planars.
      
      I think they could have been more forthcoming with details and pictures. Rather than generating excitement, for me, I am just irritated after all the hype and no pictures or details.
      
      They could have done better if you ask me (of course no one has) and FYI, I was a Marketing Product Manager for a major national firm, so I am not unaccustomed to new product roll outs.
      - Travis makes a good point - Peter Gunn 14:28:44 01/12/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Thoughts posted by rpcoins on January 12, 2009 at 11:22:57
        
        I can say with 100% certainty that maggies are not like other speakers and that there is no "limit" to consumption. If it is good quality power they will simply keep taking it and they will use it for low level micro resolution. This goes for any of them, from MMG's to 20's. They will take and use all the power you give them.
        
        The point Travis makes below and you hint at is possible. I am surprised that if these things are "all that" they are not making as much PR hay as they can, especially at a trade show. You would think there'd be so many pics out there it would be turning our stomachs already. The fact that it's still such a big damn secret implies this won't see the market any time soon.... if ever. It violates their company mantra of bigger is better, so they may very well decide they are best served not even making it.
        
        It's all about the music...
        
        PG is right - gymwear5@hotmail.com 18:51:32 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Travis makes a good point posted by Peter Gunn on January 12, 2009 at 14:28:44
        
        I sink 1000 Watts into MMG's regularly...
        
        why keep 'em under wraps? - wazoo 17:35:24 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Travis makes a good point posted by Peter Gunn on January 12, 2009 at 14:28:44
        
        Wendell understands psychology .
        
        The way a speaker looks affects the way we perceive it will sound. That translates directly into the way we will perceive the sound it makes (at least in the short term). Perhaps Magnepan just wants to keep the secret until after their CES debut can create some buzz (and press). After an impression which is uninfluenced by the knowledge of what they look like has been formed, they reveal them. Look for a flood of photos and more information any day now.
        
        Who knows? I'm just throwing another perspective out there. We're all just speculating after all, aren't we?
        
        As another inmate mentioned, a 300Hz crossover point is a bit on the high side. With that in mind, I have a question. Is this speaker system comprised of a pair of satellites with a single sub? A 60Hz tone can issue from anywhere in a room without calling attention to its point of origin; 300Hz is a different matter altogether.
        
        "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
        
        RE: Travis makes a good point - Cory M. 16:38:17 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Travis makes a good point posted by Peter Gunn on January 12, 2009 at 14:28:44
        
        I certainly hope that these will see the light of day, if only for my greedy ears to hear them. Ok, so I wish the company luck also, and believe that something like this could be very good for them, and hi-fi in general.
        
        I'd venture to guess that the Mini Mags weren't really ready to be shown off in the first place, and that it'll be awhile before they come to market. I am keeping both fingers and toes crossed that they will. Both us and them need it to happen.
        
        I can't help but think to myself that old saying, "if it's too good to be true..." But there's quite a few people saying the same things about them.
        
        And no, I'm sure I won't rush off and sell my 3 series, because I still have quite a ways to go to make them all they can be, and have fun in the process- I just want to hear them and see them take off!
        
        Cory
      - RE: Some Thoughts - Travis 12:28:57 01/12/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Thoughts posted by rpcoins on January 12, 2009 at 11:22:57
        
        Not to put too fine a point on it, but this all reads like testing the waters. I don't believe they rolled out a new product. If so, what was it?
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
        
        RE: Some Thoughts (and parallels) - 6sigma 12:44:11 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Thoughts posted by Travis on January 12, 2009 at 12:28:57
        
        Point well made & taken. Plenty of "concept cars" never make it to dealers' car lots.
        
        Also, a bit reminiscent of the mini-computer companies that feared micro-computers might cannibalize sales. The companies that tip-toed sold very few PC's and lost their mini-computer business as well. Those that sold PC's aggressively lived to fight another day even though profits and sales took near-term hits.
        Did you hear that?
      - Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... - joeljoel1947 12:16:04 01/12/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Thoughts posted by rpcoins on January 12, 2009 at 11:22:57
        
        It was a "hidden demo" behind a curtain and they wanted us to THINK they had (perhaps) a huge new speaker there because all we could see were the amps in front of the drape! It worked on me. I thought for sure it WAS a behemoth back there and when the lights went on, I nearly fell from my chair!
        
        The soundstage was massive, with HEIGHT and DEPTH clearly beyond the boundry of the loudspeakers. I saw someone write in this thread something to the effect that "those little things could not have sounded as big or good as the ribbon 20.1's". Make no mistake about it, it would be CLOSE. They played waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay larger then they had any right to.
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        RE: Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... - Norman M 09:44:07 01/14/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... posted by joeljoel1947 on January 12, 2009 at 12:16:04
        
        Obviously next on anyone's agenda should be A/B/X "shootouts" involving the rest of their line with the new wunderkind.
        
        Agreed. - joeljoel1947 09:57:11 01/14/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... posted by Norman M on January 14, 2009 at 09:44:07
        
        Because ABX is how it would need to be done. Magnepan was GENIUS by not letting anyone see the min-mags in the demo. Perceptions were not able to be formed....
        
        There is no doubt these were better then my 1.6's and I have spent time with the 3.6's and they sounded more in line with those. BUT---to hear about the guy with 20.1's who said "mine don't sound as good as these" really says something!
        
        I really wish I could have heard them side by side with, say, the 3.6's. Would have been very interesting. Wendell did admit the obvious however---these small things won't play as loud as the 3.6's without straining and these mini-maggies are best suited for small to medium sized rooms. I pointed out to him, however, that his mystery demo room was ANYTHING but small to medium----it was HUGE. And it filled the entire room with sound, no problem. He smiled.
        Regards,
        Joel
        
        RE: Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... - gcouture@bellsouth.net 18:12:00 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Magnepan used the 1000 watt Brystons because.... posted by joeljoel1947 on January 12, 2009 at 12:16:04
        
        That is exactly right, joeljoel hit it on the head. The Brystons were there to throw off the scent trail. I understand the scepticism, but I heard them (twice). You won't believe it. They mentioned seperating the ribbons and crossing over at 300 leaves the meat of the work to the base module. I am a believer!
    - "I can hardly wait for the messed up model number they assign them." - Opus 104 10:30:36 01/12/09 (1)
      Uh . . . Maggie Midgets????? Snark, snark!!!!'
      
      "If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way." - Unknown
      - they could take a page from Bob Carvers book... - mbnx01 12:51:02 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "I can hardly wait for the messed up model number they assign them." posted by Opus 104 on January 12, 2009 at 10:30:36
        
        'The Amazing Magnepan'.
    - Magnepans religion - mbnx01 09:09:55 01/12/09 (0)
      The mantra from White Bear Lake has always been, 'the bigger the planar speaker, the better. Buy the biggest Magnepan you can afford and worry about the rest later'.
      
      I hope this experience opens their eyes to new ideas and new products.
  - Crossed over @ 300hz - ltcolumbo 13:02:36 01/11/09 (8)
    ...doesn't seem like a good idea to have a crossover point in the midrange like that. A fault of many three-way conventional speaker systems was the crossover point from woofer to midrange being too high (to increase power handling?). But if they still sounded great, who cares?!?
    - My IIIas cross over from bass panel to mid panel @ 340hz (-6dB mid-point)! :-)) ... - andyr 00:09:12 01/13/09 (5)
      But then I do have 2 of them (bass panels).
      
      Interesting concept, this new speaker! :-))
      
      Regards,
      
      Andy
      - well, typically - wazoo 04:26:39 01/13/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: My IIIas cross over from bass panel to mid panel @ 340hz (-6dB mid-point)! :-)) ... posted by andyr on January 13, 2009 at 00:09:12
        
        The first crossover point in a 3-way will be lower than the only crossover point in a 2-way. It's actually the 2nd point that can be the more problematic in a 3-way, isn't it? The greater issue here, as I'm glad to see someone else also mention, is placing a single sub at a room boundary and having it operate all the way up to 300Hz. There's going to be an audible disconnect between the sub and the satellites. I could be wrong (as I mentioned before - that would be nothing new), but I don't think that would work. 60Hz is one thing, but 100Hz is getting you into trouble, and 300Hz is just asking for it IMO.
        It's an apples to oranges thing I know, but try disconnecting one of your bass panels. I'd be curious to know how much your head keeps getting yanked in the direction of the operating bass panel.
        
        "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
        
        Edits: 01/13/09
        
        I agree with you, waz ... a central woofer crossing over at 300hz is strange concept.. ... - andyr 13:58:13 01/13/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: well, typically posted by wazoo on January 13, 2009 at 04:26:39
        
        However, I'm not sure I agree with your statement that " It's actually the 2nd point that can be the more problematic in a 3-way ".
        
        If you want to be "theoretical" about it, I suggest having a crossover anywhere in the human voice range - say, 150hz to 2,500hz - is not a good thing. So having the XO from woofer to mid on the Linkwitz "Orion" & the John Kreskovsky "NaO" @ 120hz is better than having it @ 340hz on my IIIas.
        
        Likewise, the XO between mid & ribbon on my IIIas is set @ 2,600hz ... which I reckon is better than the 3.6, where it is down around 1,800hz. (And the NaO is 2,500hz compared to the Orion's 1,500hz.)
        
        Regards,
        
        Andy
        
        it appears that the game has changed - wazoo 16:22:21 01/13/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I agree with you, waz ... a central woofer crossing over at 300hz is strange concept.. ... posted by andyr on January 13, 2009 at 13:58:13
        
        I'm not sure I agree with anything I say ;- )
        
        I initially read that there was a single woofer. Now I read that there are two. That changes things, but I think I'd want to keep them fairly close (each 'sub'/sat pair).
        
        "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
        
        RE: it appears that the game has changed - Travis 16:35:49 01/13/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: it appears that the game has changed posted by wazoo on January 13, 2009 at 16:22:21
        
        Why? They don't really look that close in the demo pics.
        
        They also had two woofer enclosures for a total of 4 woofers so each little panel had two woofers supporting it.
        
        Woof, Woof
        
        "If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
        
        why? - wazoo 18:03:43 01/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: it appears that the game has changed posted by Travis on January 13, 2009 at 16:35:49
        
        300Hz is above a middle C. If I put on a blindfold and then spin around a few times (so that I'm disoriented with regard to where things are) and my daughter hits a middle C on the piano, I can point right at it. Drop an octave to a C3 and I still can. My point is that these are highly localizable frequencies, so they shouldn't be coming from different points in the room. At least, that's what I think - I'm not sure I'd pay much attention to me however ;- )
        
        "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
        
        Edits: 01/13/09
    - I'm inclined to agree - wazoo 16:17:36 01/11/09 (1)
      Another problem is that 300Hz is localizable. If there are stereo planar subs located with each of the little panels, then I suppose this isn't an issue. Otherwise...I dunno. Regardless, what little I've read of listeners' impressions has been overwhelmingly positive.
      
      "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
      - RE: I'm inclined to agree - gcouture@bellsouth.net 18:15:06 01/12/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'm inclined to agree posted by wazoo on January 11, 2009 at 16:17:36
        
        There was only 1 in the demo
  - RE: From an imate attending the CES . . . - KKM 17:03:26 01/10/09 (0)
    This poster also liked the Magnepan demo:
    - http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/534963.html (Open in New Window)
  - how many postage stamps will it take to ship those suckers!? - Green Lantern 11:25:00 01/10/09 (8)
    I'm mean really; if true, no more excuses for not wanting to ship em' (on the used market)'!!
    
    Edits: 01/10/09
    - RE: how many postage stamps will it take to ship those suckers!? - johnvb 15:31:10 01/10/09 (7)
      Yep, that's exciting. Crap-cann the MMG-Ws, offer these instead as factory direct. I always though there was a market for upscale MMGs. Most folks will add their own subs anyway.
      I have a new smaller music room that these may work in. I was intertaining the idea of going with VMPS bookshelves, but now we'll have to see...
      - not workable - mbnx01 16:00:58 01/10/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: how many postage stamps will it take to ship those suckers!? posted by johnvb on January 10, 2009 at 15:31:10
        
        If you offer a factory direct product that is superior in performance to the 12's and 1.6's you will loose 90% of your dealers.
        
        That will not work out so good. For Magnepan, or their dealers.
        
        RE: not workable - Dawnrazor 16:28:00 01/10/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: not workable posted by mbnx01 on January 10, 2009 at 16:00:58
        
        I am not so sure. The maggie dealers I have been in really werent interested in selling maggies...
        
        why is that, I wonder - mbnx01 16:49:07 01/10/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: not workable posted by Dawnrazor on January 10, 2009 at 16:28:00
        
        I know what you mean. Definitive Audio in Seattle, for example.
        
        RE: why is that, I wonder - Dawnrazor 17:52:31 01/10/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why is that, I wonder posted by mbnx01 on January 10, 2009 at 16:49:07
        
        1.Most salespeople follow the money.
        
        Maggies are about 15 or more points less in margin than most speaker lines (so my buddy who sold the stuff told me)They think they can sell whatever they want. If another brand is at the same price but makes them more, they try harder for that other brand.
        
        2.Most salespeople are arrogant.
        
        They fill cheapened if they make less money on the same volume. Then somehow, that product becomes beneath them.
        
        3. It is easy to adjust the performance of a speaker by adjusting the setup.
        
        Set up the other one a little better or the maggies not so nice as the one you want to sell...or both like Audio consultants in Chicago did with their 3.6s and B&W
        
        Ever see the shop where the mags arent hooked up? That is an extreme version of 3.
        
        Add those up and I am sure there are more and there you go.
        
        There are some exceptions like Stereo Unlimited but I bet they are few and far between.
        
        and number four... - johnvb 18:50:44 01/10/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why is that, I wonder posted by Dawnrazor on January 10, 2009 at 17:52:31
        
        The two closest Mag dealers to me are both 200+ miles away :^(
        
        and others - Dawnrazor 00:02:40 01/11/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: and number four... posted by johnvb on January 10, 2009 at 18:50:44
        
        Hey Johnv,
        
        The two closest Mag dealers to me are both 200+ miles away :^(
        
        That MAY be the best thing you could hope for.
        
        If you want to actually buy some then call magnepan and tell them that the nearest dealer is more than 200 miles away, and ask them if you can buy direct.
        
        I have heard them doing this when a dealer is not in the area, but don't know if it is a policy. I CANT HURT TO CHECK.
        
        I would add:
        #5.
        
        Myths about maggies and placement and needing big amps, etc. may make dealers not want to sell maggies as much since it will require some extra work or may cause some returns...remember the poster who took some 1.6s home put them 2 ft from the wall and complained about brightness?? Dealers hate returns.
        
        #6. WAF. See #5.
        
        #7 Mods. One really needs to mod them to get them to sound good....IMHO/ YMMV.
        
        #8 TAS. Did you see the last recommended components issue? The whole f'n magnepan line was recommended. What self respecting dealer wants to let magazines dictate sales :) See #1
        
        It's worth a try, thanks...nt - johnvb 05:13:37 01/11/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: and others posted by Dawnrazor on January 11, 2009 at 00:02:40
        
        jk
  - What did they look like? - rr999999999@yahoo.com 10:15:28 01/10/09 (0)
    I wonder if it came from these.
    
    http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/495/decware-personal-planar-speakers
  - The answer to my wife's dreams! (nt) - neolith 08:23:54 01/10/09 (0)
    I may be an egoist but at least I don't talk about other people.
  - RE: From an imate attending the CES . . . - Norman M 06:57:16 01/10/09 (1)
    How about telling us the size of that room?
    - RE: From an imate attending the CES . . . - Norman M 07:00:36 01/10/09 (0)
      And before getrting on a waiting list to buy them ;-), how far were they positioned from the walls?
  - whoa- - Green Lantern 20:18:33 01/09/09 (0)
    that's sure to send shock waves throughout the audio community!
  - RE: From an imate attending the CES . . . - EmailTim 20:15:07 01/09/09 (0)
    What were they driving them with (the Bryston 1,000 watt monoblocks) ???
    
    Sounds like I may have my new HT speakers.
    
    Were you able to get any pictures of them that you can post?
    
    Thanks,
    Tim
  - RE: From an imate attending the CES . . . - Neuro 20:06:59 01/09/09 (0)
    Whoa...random thoughts:
    
    * I wonder what they did to the driver. That's not a lot of radiating area for the midrange and ribbon, so I'm guessing the midrange might be different.
    
    * Were they using an active crossover to split the signal at 300hz?
    
    * I bet the decoupling of the woofer panel also contributes to clarity.
    
    -- Nils
  - The Maggie of PG's dreams! ;)) - Cory M. 20:06:10 01/09/09 (0)
    They're that small?! I wonder if they are a folded ribbon design, like the ones Carver came out with recently. If that's the case, and they can produce and market them for a good price, then Magnepan just might reach a broader audience and rise up further in this "HT" world.
    
    Did you notice what they were using for components? I can't believe that any foot tall speaker could sound better than a 1.6- and that goes against Magnepan's traditional basic philosophy also. How was soundstage and imaging etc.? Like a point source, I suppose.
    
    Of course they require a subwoofer, and if they are the 20.1 bass panels, then you have your large size right back.
    
    I like Panhead's idea! Maggies in the car!! Now that would be rolling in comfort, luxury and class. Get one of Butler's tube amps to drive them.... nice.
    
    Cory
  - mini maggies in the CAR! - panhead 19:37:58 01/09/09 (0)
    Yes, how about that for an idea?
    
    Cheers
- thanks! - Enchantment1.6s 17:51:10 01/09/09 (0)
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