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Been seeing a lot of Black Friday-related stories on TV and other media platforms, and frankly, I'm quite appalled.
Polls and surveys indicate that upwards of 50% of holiday shoppers still haven't paid-off debt incurred during last year's holiday season. Nearly all shoppers admitted that they are carrying at least $5K in outstanding CC debt, and an absurd 28% indicated that they would forego/skip payment of their basic (necessity) monthly bills to "enjoy the holiday season".
WTF?
"And today is for sale and it's all you can afford. Buy your own admission. The whole things got you bored. Well the Lord chooses the good ones, and the bad ones use the Lord"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Follow Ups:
"Polls and surveys indicate"It's appropriate to cite sources, especially when citing statistics. I know your post isn't intended to be a professional paper on the topic, or even necessarily reliable data. Still, it's useful to cite where you found such data. This ensures that the reader of your post can look at the same source and learn about how the poll or survey was conducted, as well as other details of the results. Obviously, anyone can do a Google search and find demographic credit card data. But that's not the same as looking at the same data source which you looked at. As a retired university professor and PhD, you probably are familiar with this norm.
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 12/02/24
By buying a lot of gifts. It's such an integral part of the holiday season that many people go into debt to do it. A recent survey from WalletHub found that nearly 50% of Americans are still paying off debt from last year's holidays.
That's double the percentage who were paying old holiday debt at this time in 2023.
3 days ago
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Yes me too at the predatory nature of American banks and industries and governments complacency with the vultures.
Clearly an appalling indicator of the irresponsible lending practices taking place in the States. I say most of these folks ought to be filing for bankruptcy asap after big borrowing for the Christmas season.
But that doesn't matter either because of the housing shortage. Fentanyl, OTOH, is relatively easy to come by...
He can't rent an apartment because his credit rating will not qualify him to do so, even though, he can write a check for the entire building complex.
Credit ratings are only for the banks, not the customers of the banks.
When I have bought new cars, the dealerships ALWAYS want to run credit checks. I ask the dealerships why they need to run credit checks for cash. I actually had 1 dealership turn down both a personal and a cashier's check.
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If folks don't have a good credit rating and they are paying on burdensome debt they are fools not to declare bankruptcy. A good credit rating is over rated. If burdened by heavy debt and only capable of making minimum payments folks should seriously consider bankruptcy. The credit system is designed to be a boat anchor on people who shouldn't have been getting the loans in the first place - put the burden on the irresponsible lenders.Since industry has essential failed in America the burden of carrying the economy has relied on expanding consumer credit. From CC expansion that began in the 60s/70s we've seen student loan expansions, 30 year mortgages, 6 year auto loans (or whatever it's up to now) all after the early days trickery to get the public to adapt to CC usage using CC interest deductions (which BTW were removed in order to give tax cuts to the highest earners in the 80s).
Americans used to save their money in savings accounts which used to pay 5% interest or more. Those days are long gone intentionally replaced by consumer debt which gives industry a higher rate of return and screws the public. American consumerism is the result of billions of dollars worth of marketing investment by American industry and the banking systems quest for profits regardless of the cost to the public. It's a massive scam that has destroyed American capitalism. Before the 70s middle class single income families could afford to buy a home and save money but since then a war has been waged by American Industry including the financials to suck away that wealth and opportunity once available to the public.
Bankruptcy is the only escape for many.
Edits: 12/02/24
"If folks don't have a good credit rating and they are paying on burdensome debt they are fools not to declare bankruptcy. A good credit rating is over rated. If burdened by heavy debt and only capable of making minimum payments folks should seriously consider bankruptcy."
Declaring bankruptcy is more serious than you think. Unless a person has a good bankruptcy lawyer and has their assets out of reach of creditors, it's a dumbass way to "avoid" paying off debt. First of all, your credit rating will suck for several years. Secondly, creditors can seize your assets. For the "average Joe" (not Joe Biden), bankruptcy is a last resort tactic.
As long as a person is able to pay down and eliminate the debt, declaring bankruptcy should not even be on the table. However, eliminating that debt should be a top priority. With banks charging as much as 25 to 30 percent interest, eliminating that monthly interest charge can save a significant amount of money every month from then on.
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
Money talks. People who have recently declared bankruptcy have more money and having more money is better than having a good or a bad credit rating and no money.
Used to be and probably still is that with 20% down a credit record doesn't matter as long as the income above debt allows for making the monthly payment when it comes to buying a home.
Reduce the endless war debt.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Don't be foolish. It'll never happen.
LowIQ
That 13 Senators voted against last year's military appropriation bill. That's surprising.
I'm all for military cuts. BIG military cuts.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
We want no more tax cuts without spending cuts, and the MIC budget is where the money's buried.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Or we'll put the headphones on, turn up the volume, and pretend they don't exist.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
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"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Considering that something like 36 million Americans are living below the poverty line, and tens of millions more hovering just above it, any chance to buy cheaper clothing and essentials must be a good idea.
I don't think they will be maxing out their cards on Ferraris!
Trying to hide from entropy
John K
I did a budget for a young couple that was considering bankruptcy.I had each of them write down their wages and expenditures, put them in a spreadsheet, grouped them, calculated the percentages and then showed them what "average" people spend on each category.
I did projections to show them the trends they are on and where they will be over time if things don't change.
Turns out, they were spending over 60% of their income on junk food and convenience store food. The rest was restaurants and weekend camping trips/vacations.
I asked them what was absolutely necessary and what wasn't for each line item.
I then asked them to mark how much they could realistically cut back on and live with.
I recalculated their changes and within a year, their debt would be paid off and would be able to start contributing to a savings account. No bankruptcy and no ruined credit necessary.
I went over the scenarios with them and told them these are their figures and I have no power to make them abide by any one of the budgets.
They both agreed they wanted to be out of debt in a year and proceeded to declare bankruptcy in 6 months. They have been leaching off their parents ever since, depending on them to bail their collective asses out after each needless self-created financial disaster.
No Ferraris charged, just laziness and needless junk indulgences on credit cards and cash before paying their necessities.
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Edits: 12/02/24
I'm becoming convinced that it's a form of insanity.And it also goes to show that you don't have to break any laws in order to be an "immoral" person. "Law abiding" does not always equate to "most moral", while breaking a few laws does not always equate to "most immoral". But how many people think like that ?
I'll take a moral felon over an immoral prude any day of the week...
Edits: 12/02/24 12/03/24
Which would you prefer ?
Otherwise WTF do you care?
You seem to be an observer, not a participant.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Because everyone pays for their irresponsible fiscal behaviors.
Same goes for all types of insurances (medical, home, car, etc.). The responsible pay for the irresponsible.
Build a mansion on a beach that gets washed away, the peasants' increased home insurance rates pay for the mansion.
Build a mansion on the edge of a cliff in earthquake territory, the peasants' increased home insurance rates pay for the mansion.
Give illegal alien drivers licenses and the insured drivers pay the costs.
Force everyone on commiecare and everyone (including nuns) pays for the drug addicts, smokers, drunkards, adipose-horders, gender-benders, hypochondriacs, illegal aliens, child mutilation, abortion as birth control, etc..
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Forgiveness of all debts per command of Jesus and his dad. But bankers didn't get the memo.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Simone Weil said to Simone De Beauvoir, "it's easy to see you've never gone hungry."
Today, a single working mom, borrows more, rather than paying off her debt, to give her kids a happy Christmas. Imagine that. A new mom borrows more to fly her parents out to spend Christmas with their first grandchild. Irrational, I suppose.
nt
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
The flight in from Chicago was easy, and I met some Johnstown, Ebensburg and Altoona people waiting, including my daughter in law's CEO. Leaving was a little different. They left the plane out all night in a light snowstorm. Dead battery, recharge, wait for the inspector, board, wait another hour to de ice and clear the runway. We rebooked a later flight to LA from Dulles before we left JNT. No one made their connections. No anger, no acrimony. The nicest people in the world.
nt
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
It is sad that you look down on common people who struggle, so much that you are appalled at them.
It's plenty of fun though !
Grantv,He said "holiday shoppers", not common people who struggle.
You don't go into debt to buy presents.
You don't go into debt to eat at restaurants.
You don't go into debt to go to concerts.
You don't go into debt to buy recreational party goods, booze, drugs, soda, etc.
You don't take out loans to go on vacations.
You don't go on vacations BEFORE you pay your bills.
You don't go into debt to buy a fancier XYZs.
You don't buy toys on credit or before you meet ALL your other financial responsibilities.This is why the US is in the shit. Nobody knows what a lay-away account is anymore, just charge-it for immediate gratification.
A friend bent over backwards to avoid family bankruptcy. Right after negotiating his way out of it, he literally comes home to discover his wife just charged a $50K auto, ON CREDIT. SHE WAS SO EXCITED, SHE PROCLAIMED, LOOK AT WHAT MY CREDIT RATING QUALIFIED ME FOR (with no job, nor means to pay for it) !!! I am surprised she is still breathing after that.
He called up the bank and threw in the towel, declaring bankruptcy which later lead to a divorce.
People have absolutely no fiscal responsibility any more and should be shamed for their irresponsible habits. Everyone ends up paying for their immaturity.
This is something very different than responsible common people who struggle meeting bare necessities.
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Edits: 12/02/24
Many folks can never get ahead, millions of them, they struggle non-stop for years. Perhaps their entire lives.
I get splurging, particularly for their children, even if it means suffering a bit more.
You ever struggle, for years on end? You mention above buying your cars cash. Maybe not.
I'd personally change your "don't" to "shouldn't" perhaps. But people need to feel good about their lives once in a while, even if it means trouble for them.
I grew up in a poor family. Both parents worked full time. Latch key-kid with a literal key hung around my neck under my shirt. Never went hungry, but was no stranger to Goodwill and hand-down cloths. My father built our entire house. We always had a hand spaded home garden and canned to subsidize food costs.Started labor very young. Bought my 1st bike for a paper route that I doubled circulation on. Starting in 5th grade I was doing farm labor all summer long with many smaller jobs before that. Worked through Jr and Sr High. Bought my own 8th grade graduation suit as well as much of my clothing. Bought all of my vehicles. Bought old POS cars and repaired (engine and body work) them myself. Paid for my own college education while working 3 part time jobs. Dropped out of college to catch up on bills and afford to finish college.
First professional job out of college, I took a studio apartment in the ghetto with 300lbs hookers walking the street below and bums kicking in the doors to get out of the winter cold. Worked with the apartment owner to remodel the apartment in exchange for rent considerations. When I took down the ceiling tiles, copious amounts spent hypodermic needles showered the floor. The walls were covered with years of chain smoking soot. Tenants across the hallway were 2 tweakers on goobermint aid that shortly turned yellow with hepatitis from sharing infected needles. The place was constant motivation to pay off all bills, save up and get out.
Subsidized my parents retirement while my 2 older siblings bled them dry.
Bought my 1st home built in 1924, gutted it to the studs and rebuilt it from basement up while working full time. Did everything sans the new HVAC, major repiping and cement driveway. Sold that and did another.
Took the Dave Ramsey course and did that the rest of my life. Worked for corporations and then started my own business working around the clock and calendar, nights, weekends and holidays. Ramsey teaches if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.
Ran a cash business with zero loans and not one cent of interest paid. All sweat equity. No government handouts. When customers screwed us, I paid the guys out of my own pocket to meet payroll for over 20 years.
Initially had 2 business partners, but their irresponsibly lead contracts were constantly losing $$$. My profits had to cover their debts and since we were equal partners, my remaining profit had to be split 3 ways at the end of the year. I was paying for their fiscal irresponsibility, twice over. This got old very quick. Nothing like a direct lesson on irresponsible deadbeats leaching off others.
Left the partnership and ran my contracts by myself doing the Dave Ramsey thing, thus the reason for buying cars with cash, saving first. I also strategically structured my business expenses to kill 2 birds with 1 stone with existing tax codes.
In short, there is a reason why I buy cars with cash, only after I saved up for them to avoid the unholy interest costs.
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Edits: 12/02/24 12/02/24
I appreciate the life story, how you got where you are. Respect.
I still feel as I do, but you've lived the life, traveled that road.
I don't get people.The 2 tweakers (siblings) across the hall would knock on my door shortly after the beginning of the month asking for a "loan". I would ask them, didn't you just get your goobermint checks a day ago ? They would make excuses.
I sat them down and ran a spreadsheet. I was curious what they were getting paid to be deadbeats. With the amount of goobermint aid they were getting, they had enough money to pay their rent, utilities, food, clothing, etc. with money left over yet they were out of cash in 24 hours, in the government cheese lines and soup kitchens, plus looking for more cash.
I spoke with the landlord who was involved with a moving company. I got both of them a job with the moving company and they both turned it down because it was "not what they were into". I told them they had to start somewhere.
Then they had the gall to tell me I had it easy with my full daytime engineering job and part time 2nd shift engineering contracting job as if both were just handed to me after the taxpayers just paid off my college loans.
They ended up stiffing the land lord for a few months rent, never to see them again.
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Edits: 12/02/24
Dang. You beat me to it.
+1
Yes, the sad lefties who don't understand the electorate, for example, and call them garbage and deplorable.
Some debt is good to own. We all own it. If you have cash, you own some. I prefer to own debt on my home at 2.75%.
But after the disaster of family illness, divorce, custody battles left me in credit card debt, I understood better than anyone how we are all just a disaster or two away from financial ruin.
Luckily for me, I was able to turn it around. But millions are not. And I certainly understand why they would want to celebrate Xmas with gifts, good food and drinks, rather than pay off the cc.
"and call them garbage and deplorable"
The word "garbage" is owned by the "righties".
Biden called Trump and his supporters "garbage" a week before election day. I guess you missed that.
Quite regrettable.
Edits: 12/01/24
He is posting facts.
View YouTube Video
WOW!
All that is wrong in your world resides in that one word.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
sorry to burst any bubble....
Leftie being red-pilled !!!
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to support JI's favored insult?
Right.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Afraid of anybody who is even a little bit different to them.
Trying to hide from entropy
John K
: ) all you have to do is see the headlines of today as a miniscule example.....Joe pardons son of ANY and ALL potential crimes, which of course may point to Joe's influence peddling....tip of the iceberg
Root of the word remains incidental.
Was making fun of JI using Leftie in a post.
Really, it's so unique and unusual for him to do that it warranted comment.
Perhaps you don't read his posts so you missed that.
I seldom read his posts but have noticed a..theme.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
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.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
More of a "let them eat cake" sort.
And the modicum of compassion you exhibited gives me hope for you.
I never had credit card debt. Just never wanted to buy anything that I couldn't afford. A few car loans, a mortgage on a house, sure. My parents never had credit card debt, a car loan or a mortgage, because no one in their right mind would have lent them money.
I never had the kind of Christmas I imagined other kids had. But I imagine my mother would have borrowed, if she could, to give me one.
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