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In Reply to: RE: Not when you consider... posted by pictureguy on May 22, 2023 at 14:26:19
You can use logical fallacies and falsehoods and utter nonsense all you want. Unfortunately I can't stop you, much to my chagrin.
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare - David Crosby
Follow Ups:
You attack ME while no refutation much of what I wrote......
Too much is never enough
Right as usual pg. All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research...... Total waste of money without any thought what so ever. Brilliant "thinking" on your part. Real genius stuff.
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare - David Crosby
"You can use logical fallacies..."
Hmmm.
"All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research......"
Cherry picking is a logical fallacy, but you knew that.
From Wikipedia: "Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position."
"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan
Krav,please explain what you mean by me cherry picking in general and specifically in this situation and how it rises to the level of a logical fallacy in relation to my argument that much of Federal spending is spent with thought and used for a good purpose. Thanks in advance. Tweaker456
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare - David Crosby
You stated: "All that money the government spends to help feed and house people, to provide for the aged, to provide for defense, to defeat Tojo and Hitler, to do medical research...... Total waste of money without any thought what so ever."
In the context of 'irresponsible spending' as stated by pictureguy, you are cherry picking by only presenting the "positives" (what I imagine you would call responsible spending) while not acknowledging the negatives of government spending, the 'irresponsible spending'.
Just a few examples of government 'irresponsible spending':
From The Nation article "The Pentagon's Irresponsible Spending Is Now Dangerous":"Pentagon waste is a long-standing issue in desperate need of meaningful action. Last November, the Department of Defense once again failed to pass even a basic audit, as it had several times before. In fact, independent auditors weren't even able to assess the Pentagon's full financial picture because they couldn't gather all the necessary information to complete an evaluation. In some ways, that should have been devastating, the equivalent of a child receiving an incomplete on an end-of-year report card. No less alarming, the Pentagon couldn't even account for about 61% of its $3.5 trillion in assets. Yet the last Congress still approved $858 billion in defense programs for fiscal year 2023, a full $45 billion more than even the Biden administration requested.
Spending levels aside, poor financial management has a serious negative impact on both service members and taxpayers. Last month, for example, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) revealed that the Pentagon can't account for at least $220 billion worth of its property, including such basics as ammunition, missiles, torpedoes, and their component parts. For its part, Congress (and so the average taxpayer) doesn't have the faintest idea how much it's spent on weapons or their components distributed to contractors for maintenance and upgrades. Worse, the GAO reports that the $220 billion in unaccounted-for equipment and parts is "likely significantly understated." "
From the CNBC article "The federal government wastes at least $247 billion in taxpayer money each year. Here's how":
( https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/heres-how-the-federal-government-wastes-tax-money.html )"The U.S. government wastes billions of taxpayer dollars every year.
Improper payments, which refer to payments that are made incorrectly by the government, cost the U.S. $247 billion in 2022, according to the Government Accountability Office. The U.S. government has lost almost $2.4 trillion in simple payment errors over the last two decades, by GAO estimates."
We are all capable of making logical fallacies. Recognizing them makes us better thinkers, does it not?
"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan
Edits: 05/24/23
Krav?
I live in California. We have a 'high speed rail authority' which is in process of spending untold billions on a project originally pegged at just a 'few' billion. Cost is now up to 120+ billion and is about 100 billion 'short' of funding.
Costs continue to rise and prospective ridershsip Fall......I'm making the cost NOW at about 3000$ per person for every man, woman and child in the state of about 40 Million persons....
I'd LOVE to get a go-fund-me page together and HIRE a forensic accounting firm to dig thru the books of that operation.....
But I'll bet I'd be met by armed guards at the door, preventing any 'unauthorized' access followed by some reference to the public accounting......which I don't necessarily believe.....
Too much is never enough
I wish we could safely talk about the issue, without any name calling whatsoever.
this is overall a pretty bright group with diverse backgrounds. Some here I know do not participate for whatever reason. But that input would be valued, too....
I wish I knew how to not use examples to prove or support a position or case. If I do, I could be guilty of cherry picking. But a complete run down of tax law and returns? sleep inducing.
Too much is never enough
Do something different or continue on the same path?Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome....
And what did I say that was wrong? You may not like it, and I don't either, but the government is a horribly inefficient way to allocate scare resources.....like Money....which contrary to governemt behavior, does not grow on trees....
Too much is never enough
Edits: 05/22/23
It is pretty clear from this chart that the USA was doomed in 1986 when this chart clearly shows an impending catastrophe. Doomed I tell you!
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare - David Crosby
If doomed we are to be, I doubt it's gonna be ONE thing, but a perfect storm of greed and stupidity.
Maybe the government should consider limiting itself to those things clearly called out in the Constitution?
While the other 'things' are reserved to the states or respectively the People.....
The 9th and 10th amendments are not 'recommendations', they are in the Bill Of Rights and theoretically need to be taken seriously....
The legal Convolutions done to acrcue yet more power to the Federal Government makes me ill.....
And some of it, perhaps, can be laid at the feet of Hamilton...
did you know it was ILLEGAL for a farmer to grow grain on his own farm for his own internal use...like livestock feeding and for seed? Yep.
Too much is never enough
Yeah, let's go back to hangers and hangings.
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare - David Crosby
The Constitution is the Final Arbiter of what is legal, right and wrong. If you do not follow that, you've got a form of 2-party mob rule......
9th and 10th amendments clearly calls out Federal Limits. No amount of twisting the language will make some of the stuff they do constitutional.
Having the various states maybe not agree, is a wonderful way to find easiest or best ways to accomplish some things.
To maybe give a non-partisan example? How do Executive Orders have the force of law for anything but the executive branch? President IS after all, the 'Chief Executive'.....which is only 1 of 3 branches. I support his running his branch. But the LAW part of the executive is a Congressiona function followed by any court cases and eventually, in some cases, as far as the Supreme Court.
An executive order which effectively changes the written law, IMO should not be enforceable....
Too much is never enough
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