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In Reply to: RE: A travesty of justice posted by Tre' on November 19, 2021 at 16:34:27
'However, the exceptions are: "when a person under 18 possesses a rifle or shotgun""
Tre' ... that's incorrect or poorly worded on that Wiki page
the statute doesn't make an exception and goes on to state that if the gun discharges and hurts or kills someone it's automatically charged as a felony ... probably to discourage young wet behind the ears hit men
read at the link or ... here's the actual statute:
948.60(2)(a)(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
948.60(2)(c) (c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another.
[this goes on to say that those under 18yrs. can't carry sawed off long guns period; those are automatically in the felony class]
948.60(3)(c) (c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 *or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593*
[the below describes what sawed off weapons are]
941.28 Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(1) In this section:
(a) "Rifle" means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a metallic cartridge to fire through a rifled barrel a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.
(b) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels having a length of less than 18 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(d) "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(2) No person may sell or offer to sell, transport, purchase, possess or go armed with a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a Class H felony.
(4) This section does not apply to the sale, purchase, possession, use or transportation of a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to or by any armed forces or national guard personnel in line of duty, any peace officer of the United States or of any political subdivision of the United States or any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. This section does not apply to the manufacture of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles for any person or group authorized to possess these weapons. The restriction on transportation contained in this section does not apply to common carriers. This section shall not apply to any firearm that may be lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968.
*or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593
those describe hunting restrictions for 12yrs. old and under and certification for bow hunting respectively
Follow Ups:
Was there a sawed off long gun?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
no Tre` that wasn't the point ... the statute states ANYONE UNDER 18yrs. OLD is guilty of a class A misdemeanor doing open carry ... it DOESN'T say it's OK if it's a shot-gun or rifle ... it also states if the weapon discharges [either accidentally or on purpose] it's no longer a misdemeanor, it's a felony
section C says if they're under 18yrs. old and it's sawed off it's automatically a class H felony whether it discharges or not
Rittenhouse committed a felony under WI gun laws, the judge dismissed the gun charges pre-trial [because the prosecution bungled the charging documents] instructing the jury they could only decide if his actions were self defense or murder ... before the jury 'got the case' for deliberations he stated they could decide if lesser charges applied [manslaughter of the 'X' degree] but didn't fully explain this was the option, only that there was one
that was a mistrial top to bottom
regards,
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I did misinterpret the statute but haven't had the opportunity to retract the statements yet, so thanks for this, I would have come around to it eventually
now I'm stuck on the strawman buy of the weapon
the whole situation is starting to smell ... pretty bad
with regards,
I wonder if it would have made a difference if it were his father buying the gun for him? Would that have still been a "strawman" buy?
17 is too young to own the gun but not too young to be in possession of the gun. I believe that is what WI law says. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with it but to understand what happened in the trial we have to understand WI laws.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
agreed ... but I managed to misinterpret WI gun law on open carry. my police officer stepson stepped in and pointed this out an hour or two before you posted. he also said in so many words, that if someone makes a mistake on the letter of the law it's best to err conservatively ...anyway, the strawman rules for gun purchases are at the Fed level requiring State compliance ... and from this gun owners association site:
[quotes on]
"if a father were to buy his son a firearm and didn't plan on being the owner and primary user of the weapon himself, it would qualify as a straw purchase.
The name comes from "strawman" - in this sense, the purchaser is buying the weapon for a strawman user who isn't currently in the store or signing the forms with them.
straw purchases are illegal because the background checks. Other legal loopholes that a gun purchaser needs to jump through don't apply to someone not in the store buying the weapon themselves.
If you were to buy a firearm for someone else, you're basically trying to let them skip the legal process and get a weapon without having to pass several checks.
It's pretty cut and dry. You're violating the law if you purchase a gun with the intent of bringing it to someone else. Of course, there's no law against you letting someone handle your weapon at the firing range or in other protected or necessary circumstances." [quotes off]
I personally don't believe that weapon wasn't in Illinois and transported across the state line based on the testimony of the individuals breaking the strawman purchase law in the first place ... it doesn't pass the sniff test ... yet the court accepted it along with a lot of other nonsense
'but to understand what happened in the trial'
I think what happened was pretty clear ... that was a show trial with an 'activist' judge presiding and putting more than his thumb on the scales of justice; as others have stated, a travesty of justice
the inevitable civil suits should be quite revealing
anyway, having invested more time than I cared to yesterday dragging the issue I'm bowing out and 'going dark' on it ... those who approve of the results aren't going to care what any critics have to say and as I saw yesterday, assign political motivations to them
I do hold a perspective on such matters but put those aside as much as possible analyzing them, since to me the court process is sacrosanct as part of freedom and human rights no matter the source of government authority ... including country / nation
with regards,
Edits: 11/22/21
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