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In Reply to: RE: so tin... posted by Jim Pearce on April 09, 2021 at 11:59:15
from possible transmission from me--- and I from them. Further:
"But scientists don't fully know yet how much the vaccines reduce transmission of the virus from a vaccinated person to others.
The good news is that studies suggest that the vaccines do reduce transmission — to some extent.
Additional studies are underway now that should give us a better answer soon to the question of transmission after vaccination". healthline.com
Follow Ups:
There is not yet enough data to show that vaccinated people cannot pass on the infection.
The vaccinated might be protected from getting sick, but it has not been proven that they cannot pass on the disease to the unvaccinated.
Pfizer and Moderna are 100% effective against severe disease, but somehow reduced transmission from others is still a benefit to you? As for protecting others, they need the vaccine to get the vaccine passport so it confers no extra protection. My conclusion is that your answer is disingenuous.
Not sure where you're getting your stats btw. CDC has most definitely not made the claim that these vaccines are 100% effective. And as you've mentioned separately, there's still a fair amount of uncertainty regarding effectiveness against variants. We're still very early days with respect to comprehensive clinical trials. So while it certainly helps the logic of your argument to declare premature victory against COVID, it's a stretch. Moreover, your argument presumes that public health interests are limited to those who want protection, and that we as a society don't care about those who don't or haven't yet, for whatever reason, sought protection.
d
I've been vaccinated. And I don't have a vaccination "passport". That whole "passport" thing is political bullshit.
What have I been vaccincated for? Let's see:
Measles.
Mumps.
Tetanus.
Smallpox.
Shingles.
Hepatitis.
Polio.
Never once, anywhere, anytime, has anyone ever said "oh, we should have a "passport" for that". It's F-ing bullshit, promoted by political people, likely because they have financial supporters who would benefit from it. Follow the money.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Get one, don't get one. The choice is yours. Just don't moan and whine when you are refused entry or service. If a number of countries require it for entry, other countries might not have a choice but to offer vaccine passports to their citizens, and when they are offered they will be more widely required. You can bleat on about your rights and freedoms, but the real world will prevail over your lofty principles. Good luck with that though.
No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
"The choice is yours. Just don't moan and whine when you are refused entry or service."
Moan and whine?
And, yes, the choice is OURS.
Personally, my choice is to NOT have more government controlling my life. Your choice?
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
That is such an American perspective, and I can understand that you are blind to the obvious. There is an expression that refers to cutting off one's nose to spite his face. That is what you are doing when you hold out a pathological, obsessive need to protect personal freedom at the expense of public health and safety. I pity you because you have been brainwashed.
No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
nt
d
No vaccine is 100% effective against anything. Some people who have been vaccinated for COVID-19 got infected with the disease anyway, and a small number have died. And even if the vaccine reduces the severity of the disease, the infected are still contagious. Moreover, there will always be people who have legitimate medical reasons not to be vaccinated e.g. people with certain allergies or compromised immune systems. And there will always be children too young to receive certain vaccines. The only protection these people have is herd immunity.
Attitudes like yours are why we're seeing diseases like measles and pertussis re-emerge in Western countries after being eradicated decades ago. Many people are worried, with good reason, that smallpox will be next.
Also, COVID-19 is going to continue to circulate, take people out, and generally drag us down until there is herd immunity. And the only way to get herd immunity is through vaccination.
So as long as a significant percentage of the population remains unvaccinated, those of us who are rational are going to want to keep the unvaccinated away from places where we have social contact with others.
My company already requires specific vaccines for foreign travel to certain places, and is considering a COVID-19 vaccination requirement. I'm all for it. For productivity reasons, I think we need to get back to in-person meetings and agile workspaces. And we're missing the idea generation and innovation that comes from impromptu discussions in the hallways or cafeteria. Also, the social aspect of coming to work is important too for development of professional relationships, morale, and in some cases mental health. The only way we're going to get back to the pre-COVID workplace is to make sure there is herd immunity in the workplace.
And on a selfish note, I want to be able to spend time with my 87 year old Dad doing things he enjoys, which mostly involve being in places where there are a lot of people. And get on a plane with him to visit some family and friends.
In trials the vaccines were 100% effective against severe illness or death. After two doses the incidence of infection (of any severity) is less than .5%.
The issue as to whether herd immunity is possible (however circumscribed geographically) with this disease won't be settled until long after we've opened up. In any case I'm all in favor of strong public health measures - especially immunization efforts in the third world - and I think it goes without saying that both Canada and the U.S. will only open travel to countries where covid-19 is under control.
Is making people a bit whacky. Some otherwise intelligent people seem to be embracing conspiracies and paranoid theories. As we approach the end of this pandemic, hopefully they will start to experience some clarity of thought.
No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
d
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