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In Reply to: RE: irrelevant, not an internal passport... posted by Jim Pearce on April 09, 2021 at 07:16:45
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No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
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Punishment of dissent. This is exactly what nanny fascism is all about - discovering and exploiting new binary distinctions other than gender and race in order to further social discrimination.
It wasn't fascism when you got your shots as a kid, and adding one more vaccine to the list doesn't make it fascism now.
I assume you don't have a problem with requiring a person to obtain a license and insurance to drive on public roads. We don't let unlicensed or uninsured drivers on the road because they can be a hazard to others.
Likewise, vaccines have been required for admittance to various places for many decades e.g. public schools, universities, workplaces, travel. And the reason is to protect people from the hazard of infectious disease.
Nobody is going to force anyone to get vaccinated. But if you don't get the vaccine, you may find that some companies, organizations, and groups of people people don't want you around. They have a right to exercise their freedom of association. You don't have a right to demand entrance to places where you're not wanted.
I most definitely am not, so your rant is irrelevant.
You claim not to be an anti-vaxxer, but you say that vaccination should not be required for admittance to places where an infected individual could do harm, which makes you an anti-vaxxer.
The un-vaccinated may do harm to the un-vaccinated. No big deal.
That right wing "nanny state" rap is as ridiculous today regarding what to do about travel during a continuing pandemic as it was when employed against FDR's New Deal. The roots of the "nanny state" rap sure as hell don't come from an egalitarian viewpoint. Fortunately for sensible people who are against vaccine passports their objections can be presented in a more intelligent manner, as can reasons to be in favor of vaccine passports. It is hardly a cut and dried "nanny state" issue nor are proponents seeking to use vaccine passports as a means of what you label "social discrimination". It is blatantly obvious the REAL issue is simply worldwide public health.
This is an issue that should be discussed thoughtfully and thoroughly sans knee jerk reactions. We are a long way off from firm societal conclusions.
Prohibition was an egregious example of nannyism - it did not make the U.S. a nanny state. As it happens both the U.S. and Canadian federal governments are reluctant to get involved in vaccine passports, which is a good thing.
Time will tell regarding vaccine passports, but from what I've read some European countries are seriously considering it. So far it seems reasonable to me. Dunno why people who refuse to get vaccinated would think they will face no travel restrictions. At the least I'd expect lottsa countries will continue to require testing and/or quarantining before allowing entry. Maybe a vaccine passport for those of us who ARE vaccinated would eliminate those hassles.
But really nowhere near as big a hassle as obtaining a visa. Quite frankly all I remember before going to China and various tropical destinations was a quick visit to public health. As for Covid-19 I already have digital proof which I'm sure the airlines would accept as long as they know that's all they're going to get.
You don't get into countries by showing them your driver's license either. Dunno if vaccine passports will end up being required by a number of countries but doubt the proof you have would be sufficient. I have a card from my LOCAL guv showing I've been vaccinated. Doubt that'll be accepted for international travel but we'll see.
But this situation really highlights what could happen here. You will need to submit your local government (provincial in my case) proof to a private third party to satisfy other private third parties. What could go wrong here?
Edits: 04/10/21
I'd think a vaccine passport would come from some guv agency, just as my card comes from my city guv. You'd use it for airlines, but the real point would be showing it to guv authorities in countries you travel to. Dunno if it'll ever be required for intra-country travel but if so I'd guess that'd be to satisfy requirements some states might have.
I get my driver's license and passport from guv agencies. Other than recent delays due to covid I've never had a problem renewing either. Here in New Jersey it took me 20 minutes to switch from a NY driver's license to a Jersey license. Don't see why getting some kind of guv issued covid passport would be such a big deal.
The Biden administration will not produce a passport.
Who else would issue something like that and what country is gonna accept proof of vaccination from a biz as opposed to an official guv dept.?
I'm not sure how I feel about it. I need to do some more reading. No doubt there would be lots of opposition from people who choose not to be vaccinated. The current potential problems with some vaccines - including Astra, JNJ and the Chinese vaccine - isn't making any decision about this issue easier.
There is no validity for using that 'F'-word here. Public health is not a political issue. If you don't want to be 'enslaved' under the yoke of the man's oppression, don't carry a vaccine passport. Problem solved. Just don't be shocked when you can't take that vacation you have been looking forward to.
No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
This is just the kind of lie that justifies using the f word.
Of course it is! Mandating a picture ID to vote, however, is not a public interest issue, by way of comparison.
Everyone who has it is already immune. Oh wait, now I truly understand your magnanimous soul: you want to exclude the un-vaccinated for their own good! Isn't that the very essence of nannyism?
And you are entitled to your delusions. That is why we are a free country. I just refuse to indulge a person's irrational paranoia. Go ahead and worry though. It is obviously something that your mind feels strongly about.
No, Mr. Pence, 'The Handmaid's Tale' is not a documentary about the good old days.
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