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In Reply to: RE: Wind power is great until... posted by E-Stat on February 16, 2021 at 07:17:35
Think wind turbines are the main problem in Texas right now?
Follow Ups:
high demand and a 25% dependence on an unreliable source of power.
This source is claiming coal and nuclear generation are down too:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/texas-power-grid-crumples-under-the-cold/
While wind generation capacity predictably falls in cold weather, so does natural gas supply, and natural gas accounts for most of Texas' generating capacity. If your #1 source of power is subject to shortages in cold weather, how is that reliable?
As for high demand, the industrial sector wants to keep production going and people want to stay warm. Can't blame them. Texas' power system is undersized to meet the peak demand. Demand changes due to weather are predictable, they can be planned for. So the root cause here is either bad planning, or an intentional decision not to size the system to handle infrequent demand excursions. I'm going to presume the latter, in which case there shouldn't be any finger pointing.
'These recommendations were not mandatory, and over the course of time implementation lapsed. Many of the generators that experienced outages in 1989 failed again in 2011," the investigation discovered.
Fast forward a decade and here we are again' ... [a 32 year period!]
so ... how could anyone have seen this coming?
yeesh!
Nobody wants to design for the worst case except maybe the military.
I can understand why. Deploying and maintaining the generating and distribution capacity needed to handle the worst case drives up the cost for everyone and you only see the payoff once in a while. The rest of the time, everyone just complains about their rates.
So there's continual pressure to "right size" the system to cover nominal conditions. When the occasional 3-sigma outlier event happens, like it is now, everybody bitches and points fingers. But then it's quickly forgotten as we move on to the next story.
you've identified the dynamic
infrastructure spending is of course tied to political processes & taxation and it's expensive ... and not just for power, in general
as long term investments the results are usually only realized across a few election cycles ... if budget discipline to pay for it isn't maintained it doesn't get done ... if it doesn't get done that's a campaign cudgel used in elections, if it does get done the tax structure set up to pay for it [of course they went up / stayed up] that's also a campaign cudgel for the pol promising lower taxes ... few politicians want to pay for the other parties promises so ... each party will float referendums to get shit done hoping the taxpayers will raise their own taxes ... how realistic is that?
around & around it goes ... but the costs involved never go down
yet the taxpayers both need and want that infrastructure and resent whoever is in the legislature at any given time for not giving it to them for free somehow ... when politicians promise to balance a budget they're promising program cuts and almost always target the least visible
teacher salaries are popular targets for short term political gains, you can blame shitty roads on the last guy ... but never cut garbage and snow removal, always nickle and dime water rates [what will the public do, buy it somewhere else?]... bah! rather than *toot* about what everyone knows:
everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die etc.
sorry for blabbing, it's the meds
regards,
all those contingency plans and preparations cost $$$.
I'm certain people would just LOVE paying San Diego - like rates for power and gas.
SDGE Corporate Motto? 'Let nothing stand in the way of Executive Bonuses'!!
Too much is never enough
with great power comes great responsibility
maybe swap accountability for that last word?
back in Illinois they formed 'CUB' [citizens utility board] back in 1984
other states have them too ... how effective are they?
'almost' might be a good description
what they do accomplish is give 'the press' an easy handle to pull on when things go wrong ... this actually works sometimes ... but now 'the press' is being relied on for giving the public 'a handle' to pull on
how effective is this? may the circle be unbroken might be a good description ... damn near a 'back to square one' proposition
regards,
California had a power crisis which resulted in the Governor being recalled and replaced by Arnie.
A big mistake electing Arnie, but Davis WAS a major Hack.
A power company (broker) was selling CA power out of state and REIMPORTING it at higher rates and raking in millions.
FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) and the California Energy Commission did exactly NOTHING to help. Davis signed us up for years of higher rates to 'guarantee' power or however it was phrased.
Recently, San Diego had its contract with SEMPRA run out. It had been signed in 1971 or so for a 50 year run. I NEVER saw anything about this on the news and nobody in local government will admit that the fix-is-in since I NEVER saw any signs of competitive bidding or anythinng similar for the new contract.
I'd say such commissions and boards should ALL be based on Mars. Let 'em do something constructive with their time other than waste public money.
Too much is never enough
'A power company (broker) was selling CA power out of state and REIMPORTING it at higher rates and raking in millions'
I remember that controversy being all over the news ... for about a week
see the power the press might have for good if they had any attention span?
too much hard werk I guess
regards,
to get more of the facts, you had to wait for the MOVIE.
Did anyone ever go to JAIL?
Too much is never enough
yes, many went to jail
Jeff's brother is Tom .. WGNTV meteorologist in Chi-Town
which probably kept the story alive there for more than a gnats birthday
regards,
I count about 10 people charged. some initial trials were 'hung' and charges refiled.Kenneth Lay is OUT after just over a decade in custody and apparently wants back IN to the power game. He should be sent to the moon to prospect for oil.
Skilling was ALSO convicted.I don't consider this 'many' but DO think that deposing Gov Davis was a good start. I'd have liked to see an Execution. Schedule it at Halftime at the Superbowl for maximum viewership. Ratings ARE all that matters.
Corporatee Swine will continue to behave poorly until they bring back firing squads or some OTHER real punishment. Impovershment would be the MINIMUM I'd accept.
Link from the Chicago Tribune.....I delivered a metric TON of these from age 9 thru maybe 13 or 14 on my morning route. I had an Afterschool route, too.
Too much is never enough
Edits: 02/16/21
Your article didn't explain why that power was down.
If your #1 source of power is subject to shortages in cold weather, how is that reliable?
There's a difference between keeping up with demand and failing to deliver - any power!
nt
Edits: 02/16/21
no other source of energy has been reduced to 50% of capacity.
green energy - including wind turbines - will be providing more and more energy every year and doing so at a cheaper and cheaper rate. Even oil companies are behind it and are investing heavily. Maybe you should attempt to educate yourself about Texas's wind farms via the link.
Less than .1% of New Jersey's electricity comes via wind turbines. When Sandy hit we had no power for 9 days.
...and doing so at a cheaper and cheaper rate.
When using such matches current costs for energy, it will certainly be more widespread. They definitely need to budget de-icing boots in the future!
Solar has far more promise for home power. ROI is almost there today.
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