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Shoulder bone in. Carolina sauce. For some reason the bone does something good. I know that most folks do the Boston butt, but the picnic with the bone is it for me.
The sauce disappears when mixed in. It's just apple cider vinegar, brown sugar, red pepper flakes, a dash of Texas Pete hot sauce and salt and pepper simmered. It's the way BBQ tasted when I was a kid.
I know. I have posted this before, but this is the best BBQ sandwich (with a bit of cole slaw on top) you can't buy. Freezes well and my dogs love it too. No sauce for the pups.
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I'm curious about what you like about the picnic vs. a bone-in butt. I've only tried butts. But they come in various sizes so it's not clear to me what differentiates the dividing line between the two cuts aside from butchers' whim.
Around here, you can either buy a small boneless cut of the butt that's 3.5-4.5 lbs, or a full bone-in butt that's 7-11 lbs. Picnics are usually 9-11 lbs, but I sometimes see smaller picnics that look more like hock than shoulder.
The small boneless butts dry out a bit too much when smoking, but are fine for making carnitas or slow cooker use. The big bone-in butts are much better for smoking.
How does a picnic compare? Which part is better, the upper leg muscle or the shoulder.
TIA
I think it's the difference in the muscle. The picnic gets more use than the top of the shoulder. The meat in the butt boneless is longer grain. When it's pulled, you get 3-4" strands of meat. The picnic has shorter strands that are 2-3 inches long. The butt bone in is somewhere in between. If you think of chicken, it's a bit like comparing the drum stick to the thigh. It's just a personal preference. I think that a lot of people probably disagree with me from what I've seen on the net. The butt boneless comes out a little drier for me. I use chicken thighs rather than chicken breast for dishes. I like juicy.
Obviously, having a small bone in the butt bone in and the picnic with a larger bone has some effect on how the meat reaches temperature through the collagen break down sequence. My cooks of the boneless butt have been drier. I don't even buy that anymore. I don't know if the bone adds to the flavor (closer to the bone, sweeter the meat) or anything other than the way the meat reaches prime temperature. And yes the picnic looks like a small ham. It kind of is, just a different leg.
All of what I'm saying refers to indirect smoking. Slow cookers and other methods of cooking will probably give different results.
Sounds like there might be a little more flavor with the picnic. I'm going to try it next time.
I also find the boneless butts come out drier when smoking. I only use them in the winter when we're craving tacos but I can't cook outdoors. I like making carnitas with them - the traditional way, fried in oil or lard. I also do them in the slow cooker with a char siu BBQ marinade, for Asian style tacos.
And like you, I avoid chicken breasts unless I'm cooking a whole bird. I've found ways to make breasts come out moist, but it's due to water retention. There's still not much flavor.
Bone-in ANYTHING is always more flavorful--pork, beef, chicken, whatever. It's the marrow in the bone that really adds the flavor. A lifetime ago, I worked at a fairly high-end restaurant under a well-known, respected chef, and we used to buy cases of just bones to cook down for stock. Dump them in a pot first thing in the morning with some water and let them boil all day long 12-16 hrs. Drain the liquid, put it in the cooler overnight, skim-off the solidified fat layer the next morning, and voila--stock. Depending on the intended use of the stock, we would add whole vegetables--carrots, celery, onions, garlic, turnips (skin/peels/tops still on) in with the bones, as well.
IME, the picnics tend to be leaner than butts, and fat tends to keep the meat moister, but (pun intended) the relatively large bone has a lot of marrow, and adds a lot of flavor. I use the "compromise"--bone-in butts. Of course, a lot of it has to do with your method of cooking, and the desired results. For pulled pork, I like to rub a bone-in butt (with my own proprietary rub) and char the outside on a hot grill or in the broiler, and then put it in a pressure cooker with a little water to finish cooking. A couple hours in the pressure cooker breaks down the muscle and it just falls apart--it's like buttah. Of course, I keep the liquid for stock--great for soups/gravy. YMMV
I'm a big fan of Carolina BBQ. I like the vinegar, but not too sweet. In fact, I really like the vinegar and mustard based sauces. I make my own with cider vinegar and dry mustard (sometimes even a little tumeric).
"The phone don't ring, and the sun refused to shine. Never thought I'd have to pay so dearly, for what was already mine, for such a long, long time."--Warren Zevon~"Accidentally Like A Martyr"--1978
I save virtually all bones in the freezer until I get enough to make a batch of stock. Haven't bought cans or boxes of stock in probably twenty years or more. I've got 12 quarts of finished stocks in the garage freezer right now. Beef, chicken, turkey and ham. I also freeze the tops off the onions from my garden and add them to the pot when making stocks. Making stock is a great way to clean out stuff from the fridge.
When I was a kid my dad used to send me down to the corner grocery store to get soup bones from the butcher there. They gave away, or threw out the bones after butchering a side of beef. It's nearly impossible to find soup bones at the supermarket now, and if you do find them they sure don't give them away.
I don't know if bones are sold in other places, but around here you can find ham hocks in the supermarkets. Red beans requires a ham bone. The marrow helps make the red gravy and gives the dish the requisite flavor. Red beans also requires pickled pork I have no idea if that makes it past the state line.
You lost me at putting the meat in a pressure cooker.
Carolina sauce can easily be modified. Less vinegar, sub in some broth. If you want more or less sweet and hot, adjust the brown sugar and red pepper. The recipe I use is mildly sweet with just a hint of heat.
I used to try different rubs, but found that most recipes use the same ingredients in different proportions. I now buy Plowboys Yardbird Rub, created for chicken, but made for pork. It says that right on the container. They also make a Bovine rub that I use on brisket. It's mostly salt and pepper with enough paprika to give the bark some color.
I make my own rub. It's not hard to do, just sit at the kitchen table with about a dozen jars of stuff and follow my secret recipe.
But, I really would like to vary the sauce. I put BBQ sauce on the baby back ribs for about the last 15 minutes of grilling. I typically use KC Masterpiece or Oklahoma Joe's as a base, and modify it to my taste. So, it's a tomato/sugar based sauce. I should try your vinegar-based sauce, or some variation of it!
It works well on pulled pork, because you have a lot of meat deep in the hunk of pork that rub doesn't get to. After pulling the pork, the sauce is added and the meat gets tossed to get it even.
Vinegar sauce:
1/2 C vinegar
1/2 C brown sugar
1/2 Tbsp ketchup
1/2 Tbsp Texas Pete hot sauce
1/2 tsp red pepper flakes
1/2 tsp black pepper freshly ground
1/2 tsp Kosher salt
Simmer until sugar is melted and the sauce turns brown.
You can cut the vinegar with stock for less vinegar taste, and of course you can vary any of the ingredients to taste.
This recipe isn't mine. I wrote it down watching a video of a guy smoking a shoulder who has won several pitmaster competitions.
I have made my own rubs. The Plowboys rub has also won many competitions and it's as good or better than anything I've put together, not expensive and comes in a convenient shaker container. I have watched all of the Pittmaster competition shows. One of the guys who regularly wins uses a store bought rub that he doesn't disclose.
I used to make my rub, then the mop and the sauce. The mop is equal parts of vinegar, olive oil, and broth. I stopped using a mop a while back. I just wrap the shoulder in foil after 5-6 hours to keep the bark from getting too dry.
I use Texas style sauce like Masterpiece, or Stubbs on ribs and brisket. The Carolina sauce would be too runny. I have also made my own Texas style sauce. It's just vinegar, ketchup, brown sugar, salt, pepper and a touch of pepper for heat. People also tweak Texas sauces all over the place. Everyone seems to have a secret recipe.
I like a Kansas City style sauce on ribs, but for pulled pork it's North Carolina style sauce and only a little bit of it, just enough to make it a little bit wet but not saucy. I can't get into South Carolina mustard sauce though, or mustard rubs. For me, just a little bit of mustard flavor goes a long way.
Many people slather mustard sauce on meat to make the rub stick. I do that and when the meat is cooked, I can't taste the mustard. I've never tried mustard sauce.
...it just reduces the cooking time vs roasting. High heat steam bath under pressure vs low and slow, but still humid in a roaster. And if you're doing it indoors in the summer--no oven on all day long to get it tender, and half the time. But you have to get the char on it first, otherwise it's like you boiled it.
Grocery stores carry some "soup bones", but if you go to a real butcher or a restaurant meat/poultry supplier, they sell 40-50lb cases of chicken necks/backs, ox-tails, neck bones, ribs, femurs--all the "scrap" left over from processing the boneless stuff you see in the grocery stores. The rest gets sold for pet foods.
My rub is the typical S&P with some brown sugar for caramelization, but I add some variety of chili and espresso and unsweetened cocoa to the mix. Coffee and cocoa are often used in South and Central American cuisine, and have made their way into the SW US, as well. You don't specifically taste them (if used properly), but they add "something".
And yeah, any sauce can be "tweaked" to your taste. I don't like a really sweet or ketchup-like tomato-based sauce. I want flavor, but still want to taste the food. I love smoked meats, poultry, sausages, etc. but I hate sauces loaded with "liquid smoke".
Yours looks and sounds good!
"The phone don't ring, and the sun refused to shine. Never thought I'd have to pay so dearly, for what was already mine, for such a long, long time."--Warren Zevon~"Accidentally Like A Martyr"--1978
'Slow cookers and other methods'
I wish that my wife had never heard of a crock pot
everything 'coasts' for eight hours no matter the protein or weight
and she cannot be reasoned with
otherwise she's very competent
it's the damnedest thing
regards,
We have exactly one dish that we cook in the slow cooker that is good. It's a roast beef with potato's and carrots. My wife has made other things, but I have never been a fan of any other crock pot dish.
I've had pulled pork made in a crock pot and it didn't taste anything like pulled pork. It was mushy pork.
huh ... I've read this before
will it repeat?
My favorite thing to make in the slow cooker is lamb shanks
Also short ribs
And shredded taco meat, from chuck roast or pork butt
Sometimes beef stews
Basically, if I'm braising meat and the cook time is a few hours or less, I'll use a dutch oven, either on the stove or in the oven. If it's a longer cook, I'll use the slow cooker because it uses less energy and it's easier to monitor.
I'm down with the dutch oven ... it's easy to monitor with a timer
one peek & eat!
regards,
We have exactly one dish that we cook in the slow cooker that is good. It's a roast beef with potato's and carrots. My wife has made other things, but I have never been a fan of any other crock pot dish.
I've had pulled pork made in a crock pot and it didn't taste anything like pulled pork. It was mushy pork.
it is to weep SR ...
meat turns mushy yet somehow it's dried out!
the veggies seam to survive and there's gravy to be had
but how can there be dried out meat with that texture?
I'll take a dutch oven prep any day + it's easier to clean up after
regards,
s
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"E Burres Stigano?"
d
Down here a Boston Butt is sold both ways, bone in and boneless. The bone is said to add flavor. It also gives a fairly reliable cue to done-ness, when it easily pulls out.
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We get all three cuts, but the picnic is sometimes harder to find. The illustration in your video shows the top Boston butt, the next cut is Boston butt bone in (shoulder blade), and the lower section is the picnic which contains the humerus bone to the elbow. The last one is what I like to use. The bone in butt that he used is my second favorite, and I no longer do the boneless butt.
In my opinion the ranking is:
1. Picnic shoulder
2. Boston butt bone in
3. Boston butt boneless
By popularity, my list above is reversed. Boston butt boneless is the most popular. I guess people don't like paying meat prices for bone.
For those of us that would like to cheat a bit (Or maybe a lot), Costco has some pre-cooked Pulled pork that looks similar and tastes pretty damn good. With your Sauce recipe, it could be improved a lot. I think you get 2 lbs. for around $10.
Ramsay and his two best buddies, one a French chef and the other Italian.
They went to Texas, to Snow's BBQ, and the recipe for the sauce was the same as yours.
So you gotta be onto something good.
I did pulled pork in the oven and in a roaster. It was pretty good in the oven, but bland from the roaster. I didn't use the right sauce though.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
In our club's monthly gatherings when the times were good .Pulled pork was amazing!
I see a lot of cooking is going on youtube and a lot of hosts is sporting a fancy custom knifes. I need one badly. Have dozen and all are crap. Any recommendations ? I'm not sure if I got it right but bones in the meat and fish add sweetness and flavor.
Do we know each other?
We may very well know each other. I was referring to an annual audio meet hosted by Jim Elmslie in Columbiaville Mi. He has huge Soundlab Majestic panel speakers. He and his lovely wife always serve excellent pulled pork dish.
Warm Regards, W
Edits: 01/20/21
That sounds like a whole other thing. I'm not Jim. My hosting was of the club in New Orleans.
recommended by Anthony Bourdain in one of his books. Made in Japan, sharp as hell. My wife is afraid to use it.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
for damned near every kitchen knife task. I have a couple of cheap, throw-away pairing knives and a serrated bread/carving knife. That's it. Don't need anything else.
You can find the Joyce Chen cleavers on eBay for $30 to $40. I'd recommend the version of the cleaver with the 3" wide blade. These cannot be beaten when it comes to dismembering vegetables.
I use the 10 inch Chef knife most of the time... Depends what you are doing with it.... I have about 8 different Wusthof knives....
I have two Wusthof kitchen scissors, bought many years ago. They're great. Made in Germany.
I recently bought a pair for my son. After getting home, I noted that they were made in China. I took them back. I am so done with China. How about y'all?
Mine are all made in Germany... But they're over 30 years old.
We ordered a brisket from Snows for Christmas after some relatives raved about it. It was a perfectly smoked juicy brisket. Best I have had.
Snows and 83 year old pit master Tootsie are featured in an episode of Chefs Table BBQ on Netflix. Tootsie doesn't use thermometers. She feels the grills with her hand. She judges doneness by how the meat bends. Chefs Table is good TV.
She let the French guy shovel wood on the fire.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Yeah, I don't use thermometers, either. I use the "poke test". Just poke the meat with my finger, and when it feels right, it's done.
We've been buying USDA prime steaks at Costco and Sam's on occasion. Sometimes, they're cut very thick. Not wanting to take a chance, on those very thick cuts I'll use the thermometer. Not taking a chance on a $20 steak.
----------------------
"E Burres Stigano?"
Wow. THAT is food porn. I gotta look at it again.
Makes me want to fire up the smoker this weekend!
:)
It's been spring like here.
.
Gsquared
Well done!
a
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Do you have a slow smoker? Pellet fed BBQ grill?
Never made my own, just order and pickup from a local family owned place.
I have a Primo grill XL oval. It's like the Big Green Egg only larger. It can cook indirect or direct. I bought it years ago when I still had kids at home. It's large for my current needs. They make smaller ones which is what I would buy today.
Now I'm hungry......
What are the gadgets with the black handles?
Thanks,
John
Per Dr. Who: "Run!"
Those are "bear claws". They are for lifting the meat off of the grill when the meat is falling apart when it's hot. I used to use two forks, but the claws work better.
I believe those black gadgets are a kind of claw used to pull the pork apart. They're handy tools for a commercial or catering operation when working with large quantities.
I just use them to lift the meat off of the grill to a pan when it's hot. It falls apart with small forks. My kids gave me those.
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