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uses a pushrod American V8.I'm not keen on pushrod engines although I like them and I realize there is some definite advantages.The first one being size and weight. We were talking the other day about old school V8s vs new smaller engines when I posted that Chevelle wagon.While the new smaller engines are absolutely killer, such as the Ford Eco-boost V6 or the Nissan GTR V6 twin-turbo,much of this is due to stronger and much lighter internals.You then have to realize that they are putting those same stronger and lighter internals in pushrod engines like the Dodge Hellcat and the GM LS and LSX engines.Now you have the fastest car using a pushrod V8.I'm not a GM guy but I have to hand it to the General for building an engine that can make gobs of HP and torque,for very little money.There are thousands of high performance parts available cheap and that's why the LS engine is put in more cars,foreign and domestic such as the Miata.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Follow Ups:
rather have this Bull-
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There are a lot of cars we would love to have and anyone can pick a multi-million dollar exotic but it isn't realistic to own,unless you are the King of Saudi Arabia or Jay Leno.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
So you have $1.2M kicking around for the Venom...? Which as others have noted is not a production car at all.
Sure.I hide it in a cereal box. My purpose for putting that out there was to show that an old American pushrod V8 can hang with the best of them.We could at least afford the motor in that car if we built it over time. A Ferari,not so much.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
real world driving dynamics. Like this 918 shaving off lap time at the Nurburgring for production cars...
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The electric motor and IC engine may be the thing of the future. You always have the gas engine if electric motors fail which is better than a pure electric.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
The electric motor and IC engine may be the thing of the future.
It is already here - at least at the top of the game.
The Acura NSX is another model that exploits that capability. Along with current F1 cars. :)
View YouTube Video
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
While I'm all over swapping out modern engines into cars that need it (IMO; 60's muscle for example can use engine management upgrades, steering, suspension, etc.), swapping a Ford /GM motor into a Porsche that's already setup and well balanced seems completely useless (and I am not a Porsche guy), just don't understand the advantage/reason.
Poorer handling older model using a high center of gravity motor.
I'll take a factory refined model instead of some yahoo's kit car.
View YouTube Video
there are several of these LS and Coyote swaps going on in these Porsches and these aren't kit cars.That Coyote is a little too large but the LS fits nicely.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
and these aren't kit cars.
Of course they are! You buy a kit that is in no way optimized for the chassis.
Ask Jerry Steinfeld how many of his vast collection of Porsches have shoehorned in crate motors. Gas Monkey Garage, yes. :)
I talking about the body and chassis itself. These are not fiberglass body cars. I guess they use the original ZF transmission too.
I would try and save the original engine and build it if you want more power but the LS engines sound fantastic when they roar to life.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 05/16/17
Sorry, I don't share your enthusiasm for unsupported crate motor swaps.
That's the kit part. Makes for a good video on YouTube though, right?
I personally wouldn't do it unless I was going to race it or if I was going to sell it as a custom. So Ralf,when are going to put your big honking Coyote or LS V8 in your sports car with a big 671 GMC blower on top. LOL. That would be a site and sound for your neighbors. LOL
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 05/16/17
when are going to put your big honking Coyote or LS V8 in your sports car with a big 671 GMC blower on top. LOL.
Why on earth would anyone do something that stupid?
That only works if you're trying out for a reality TV series. :)
This is what scares most people about pure electric cars.If your battery dies,you are screwed.With the ICE,you are going to get home.I wouldn't trust pure electric for that reason.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
If your battery dies,you are screwed.With the ICE,you are going to get home
Last time I checked, there is a battery required to start your ICE. :)
Yes but you can take a porta battery to jump it. Try that with a sole electric car.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
they're already here and spreading.
The Tesla was the first to offer realistic range AND phenomenal performance. "Ludicrous Mode" anyone?
The reason I think it will have a hard time becoming mainstream is because govts make an awful lot of money from petro dollars.How would we replace that tax revenue? It's probably one of the few things that reliably supports our debt,roads,not to mention middle eastern countries that convert petro to dollars to buy arms from the US.Too many countries depend on that reliable revenue and until that is replicated with something else,I doubt the cars will be mainstream.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 05/17/17 05/17/17
Electric vehicles are coming along with truly cheap solar power as exponential technologies that cannot be stopped. We will see that in our lifetime.
Road taxes will need to be levied differently.
It's possible but I don't see how.The socialized HC that these countries brag about are funded a lot of by gas taxes. I know Ford is working aggressively on autonomous vehicles as is GM so lets see what happens in a few years.Tanks,jets,and planes all run on fossil fuels and it will have to be a slow process to change.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 05/17/17
It's possible but I don't see how.
Indeed, most folks don't either.
Watch the two Salim Ismael videos found in my response to Abe's post.
They haven't sold enough.
I'd call it a kit car.
Sure is scary fast, but I feel sorry for the bazillionaire amateur driver who tries to drive it even a little bit hard .............
Cheers,
John K
You'll have to predict at LEAST a 10% attrition rate annually, at least for those driven regularly.
For those simply parked for investments or driven Less Than 500 miles per year (40 miles per month?) They'll last and go UP in value as the gene pool thins.
Look at the crash rate of the Dodge Demon or whatever the MegaHP version is. Cheap for all that power, hormone cases will be driving them into bridge abutments for a decade to come. At speed.,
Just my opinion, but cars of certain (to be defined) capabilities should come with a MANDATORY driving class. 3 or 4 days of TRACK experience with a couple hours per day of it being Classroom.
Too much is never enough
The king of the large displacement V-8s, at least in the US would be the Mustang engine with the Flat Plane crank. Redline of maybe 8500rpm. Nice. It IS though, a DOHC design ending up at about 100hp per liter.
Just for comparison purposes, the 2.0 in the Honda S-2000 was 120hp per liter. No Turbo.
New V6 in the Ford GT is right at 650hp in a car with aerodynamics permitting 210mph + top speed.
Too much is never enough
I would love the 5.2L flat plane crank Voodoo engine.550HP naturally aspirated.I want to sell my 2004 GT. I did put a Kenne Belle Super-Charger on it,cold air induction,42lb injectors,88mm TB plate,Borla exhaust,Sun chips tuner to set fuel and spark curve,K&N air filter,and a Trans-Go shift kit.It's making 442hp at the rear wheels thru a set of Ford Motorsport 373 gears.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I like road feel and handling as much as anyone, but being flattened into a seat has its own value.
You know it.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
.
This is less powerful Vette by quite a bit but check out track times.This is going to be the precursor to the mid-engine Vette.
View YouTube Video
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
This is less powerful Vette by quite a bit but check out track times.
Similarly, there are two more powerful and faster 911s.
This is going to be the precursor to the mid-engine Vette.
I've been enjoying my mid-engine Porsche for almost five years now. Car & Driver prefers it overall to the Corvette . Scroll down a bit for rankings. :)
Ralf
It's amazing how less power becomes quicker.I wish Ford would build a scaled down mass produced GT40 like Super car that would sell in the 90k dollar range or less.I like the black one better.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
It's amazing how less power becomes quicker.
Like the coherency of a true full range electrostat, a mid-engine with its lower rotational inertial just feels right. On my test drive, the salesman (who is an SCCA instructor) led me to a long, curvy uphill onramp to the interstate. In advance, he pointed to a section where he told me to floor it and hold it down until the top which ended in a curve in the opposite direction. We were doing 110.
It was the first time I really "got* what mid-engine handling is all about - absolute stability with no drama. While the S2000 has 50/50 weight balance, you are aware of the weight at each end shifting when you enter sharp corners. Yes, you can safely counter steer and bring the rear end back around, but it's just not the same. The "sport chrono" package not only has launch control, but a G-meter in all four directions. Wifey plays it like a video game. There's a 90 degree right corner she regularly travels and has achieved 1.0 lateral G.
Another Porsche hallmark is their brakes. When we exited, he urged me to come in hot and brake late. The brake pedal was as communicative as is the steering wheel. :)
...you linked to states that the Venom does not qualify as a production car because not enough of them have been actually produced and it did the run in only one direction.
Edits: 05/14/17
And Mikey, you are renowned for how squidgley-squdgey you can get about high capacity primitive OHV V8 engines. Every other day there's a post about cars with them from yourself! ;-)!
I for one still have feelings for such engines, their sound and smell as part of racing history, but I recognise that they are obsolescent if not obsolete, for real world use in private cars.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Tim
My favorite engines are the Ford Coyote which are OHC and the Ecoboost V6 that they put in the Ford GT and the F150 pickup trucks.My point is,as obsolete as people think pushrod engines are,including myself,one holds the world's record for speed as the fastest car.You then have the world's fastest Sedan which which is the Dodge Challenger Hellcat which is a pushrod hemi.This begs the theory,sometimes old technology usurps the latest and greatest.
Turntables and records are a prime example of this. Of course,the pushrod engines now possess the new technologies such as direct injection,cylinder deactivation,all while getting as good or better mileage as well as meeting emissions of the newer engines.Being they are also lighter,it makes weight distribution a bit easier with design.Who would have ever thought that these old engine designs would produce so much power in a small package? Amazing?
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I doubt the Dodge Challenger Hellcat is the fastest saloon car.
Its top speed is listed at 199mph and the Bentley Mulsanne Speed does 206, their Flying Spur W12 does 202 while the Mercedes E63 AMG beats the Challenger easily in the 0-60 time but is like most german cars electronically limited to 155mph.
However the E63 AMG wagons used by the german police are not and talk is of a 210mph top speed.
The problem with fast American cars is that they are for the most part unrefined and unable to go fast around a turn. Who cares if an American Hellcat, Pussycat, Demon, etc. can go fast in a straight line. I insist on the ability to steer my cars around corners which is an essential part of everyday driving. ;-)
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
The key phrase to focus on in my post was "for the most part", which could also mean "in general".
Yes, you can cherry pick a couple American models that handle well but if you lined up most cars from GM, Ford, FCI against say, most cars from Porsche, BMW, Audi, or even VW, you'll get my point.
I don't think so anymore,certainly not with VW. The first 3 are very expensive and the repairs are costly and they do break. The point I was making,if GM and Ford and FCI are capable of building cars to run with exotics at a fraction of the price,they are very capable of building cars to handle as well or similar to some of those. It wasn't too long ago that car and driver wouldn't review an American car. Now it's an everyday thing. I just believe in keeping my money in the US as opposed to sending it to countries where I don't live.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
And yet Detroit's (current) best is - well bested by a Porsche. Remember the Car & Driver link I provided putting the Vette in fourth place to an equivalently priced model?
I would enjoy driving a GT40. Remember too that, like the Cobra, it also used a European designed chassis - in this case Lola. You can keep the plastic Chevy. :)
The GT40 is almost a half a Mil.The plastic Chevy you can take to Hennessey and turn it into a machine. Now as far as handing,the Vette I posted yesterday beat the Porsche at the track by 3/4 of a second and that's a lifetime at those speeds.Handling and grip is why..They are going to carbon fiber in the Vette along with mid engine.That will pretty much complete its transformation. They will still build the current series along side it for the faithful but I think once people drive the mid engine,the old will phase out even tho its far less money.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Now as far as handing,the Vette I posted yesterday beat the Porsche at the track by 3/4 of a second and that's a lifetime at those speeds.Handling and grip is why.
And yet, the car magazines still prefer the refinement you find with Porsche in real world daily driving.
If track days are all that's important, why not buy a Cobra kit car and stuff some blowers on it?
I would love a Cobra kit car.I would put an Ecoboost V6 in it like the GT40.
I will be honest with you.I teach auto-electronics and it covers everything in the car these days.They are making these cars to where the driver input matters less and less and that takes the skill out of driving.
The new automatics shift faster than anyone at a manual gear shift but where is the fun anymore? The most mechanical part of the car I teach is the transmission.The gas pedal is electronic even.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
The new automatics shift faster than anyone at a manual gear shift but where is the fun anymore?
With mindless-as-it-is straight line acceleration, that's truly the case. Big whoop.
OTOH, the PDK in my Porsche allows for active paddle shifting (with multiple degrees of aggressiveness) to thoroughly enjoy slicing the corners.
Ever watch an F1 driver in his office? "Sport Plus" enables launch control, too. :)
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I don't share your love for crate motor swapped vehicles.
Personally I think they are perversions.
for guys like Richard Rawlings at Gas Monkey Garage. Last season, the Bearded Wonder did one of those V-8 motor swaps in a 911.
Guess which one won when it was raced vs. Richard's stock Turbo?
View YouTube Video
Which one do you think would win a hill climb? :-)
"American cars suck, Harleys break down frequently, all horn speakers honk, change your car's oil every 3,000 miles" etc. etc. We all have them, and swear by them.
Thanks for the video. That was fun.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Willie G banished that well-deserved-for-a-long-time reality some years ago. The new Milwaukee Eight motor begins to bring them into the twenty first century with four valve cylinder heads and water cooling. And yet, the H-D cognoscenti want nothing of engine refinement. They're all about the inherent imbalance of a 45 degree V-twin.
It's the only motor community in my awareness that thrives on high levels of NVH. Give us more! Great for the doo rag wearing dentists as they get to replace fillings more often.
As for me, I prefer being able to clearly see the images in the mirrors. :)
Simply because it's no longer true doesn't stop it from being endlessly repeated.
I've related this story here before, but my group of friends includes a guy who used to ride what I believe you do, an ST-1300. Another guy let him take his 1953 Panhead for a ride. Mr. 1300 came back with a big, shit eating grin on his face. It's a very visceral experience, and either you enjoy it, or you don't. He happened to. Not enough to buy one, but he "got it".
You're right that Harley has to work within the constraints of what sells. They'd be foolish not to. If McIntosh suddenly started looking like Onkyo they'd lose their market too, even if the Onkyo sounded better.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
It's a very visceral experience
I prefer my "visceral" experience to be in effortless acceleration and deep cornering. I'd probably kill myself with low ground clearance and floorboards.
Not enough to buy one, but he "got it".
Long ago, I really thought I wanted a big V-twin just like everyone else - until I actually rode one. Yeah, they shake and make lots of uneven noise
if that's what you seek! I could achieve that by fouling one of the plugs and removing the sound inserts on the Two Brothers exhaust.
To each his own. :)
That would have been nice.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
It's true I can be brutally honest.
The experience of riding a V-twin reminded me of first hearing McIntosh gear, Bozak and Altec A-7 speakers. I was totally prepared to embrace all of them.
Then the letdown occurred when fantasy met reality. Are you kidding me? I must be missing something.
I guess I'm just not into objects of perceived *image* and performance harkening back to days of yore. I have no interest in listening to or riding anachronisms.
I hear you. European cars still break more than any other car and repairs are very costly.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
My friend told me the cost of Audi's maintenance for slightly over 200k miles was $38.500 in repairs. This has certainly cooled my interest in owning a German car in US. My other friend bought new VW Jetta and the car spent more time in inept american service than on the road. I will buy a Chevy(and another turntable)
European cars still break more than any other car...
Except of course for Porsche which is #2 in JD Power's most recent study behind Lexus.
Ralf
Much of that reliability is in the first few years and this is the funny part about reliability today.
THe difference today between the 1st place car and 30th place car today is like 1 problem per 100 cars.When Ford first came out with the my Ford touch system,so many people had no clue as to how it worked because Ford assumed everyone was tech savvy and they weren't.They would go in and say my car's AC doesn't work or my electric seats don't work or my heated mirrors don't work.The dealer would show them how to use it and there was nothing wrong with the car other than human error.Even tho there was nothing wrong,it still counts as a service complaint so Ford got wise and simplified it.
There aren't too many unreliable cars anymore..They all use the same designers and parts suppliers and trade back and forth.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
There aren't too many unreliable cars anymore.
Your previous point (" European cars still break more than any other car" ) is irrelevant. Not to mention incorrect.
Yep!
:-)
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Some cars are so fast they outrun their headlights. I've slammed on the brakes in the dark only to witness my headlights catching up. ;-)
Edits: 05/14/17
If you're driving your car at the speed of light, and you turn your headlights on, would they do anything?
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
that while others are afraid of "heights", he is afraid of "widths". :)
One of his which I thought was brilliant, was: "People ask me 'How do you feel?'. I ask them, did you ever lean back in a chair, just a little too far, and almost fall over backwards, and catch yourself at the last second? That's how I feel all the time. "
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Since you can not divorce speed of travel from passage of time something rather weird would happen.
If you travel at the speed of light time stands still ie from your point of view travelling from A to B would not take any time. Consequently it would appear to you as if you were in both places simultaneously and at every point in between.
Same thing if you were to continue to travel via C,D,E,F and so on all the way to Z.
In other words from your POV you would be omnipresent.
Of course from the POV of any other slower moving observer you would still just wizz around at an enormously high yet finite speed. But time would not stand still for them so when you eventually stop you would not have aged a bit (disregarding time taken for acceleration and deceleration for the moment) while for everybody else some generations will have passed.
Good way to meet your descendants but you could never go back to the point in time you started at.
The relative speed is the key. You could see your lights from inside your speeding car if you could. but those outside would probably not 'see' them, as the frequency of the emitted wave would be vastly higher (to them). Until you passed, then the frequency would doppler to an ultra low one..
If they had the right equipment, they should be able to spot the light with equipment as you pass by.
(such equipment may not yet exist)
Can spacecraft running at 'warp' get a speeding ticket??
I still work on driving well, being aware of what's ahead, being smooth, being patient.
Leaving early, too. ;-)!
I do believe in getting past someone who is driving badly and I will exceed the speed limit to do it.
We have a LOT of two-lane winding and ripply surfaced bitumen 'Highways' down here. Most with renowned black-spots.
The most stupid thing you see is the long queue of cars with no room to slot in half way along. Thank the lord there are now 2-3km long passing lanes every 10 to 20 K's, but you do need decent acceleration to benefit.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Tim
I hear you. I used to love to drive fast and get on it.That was back in the days when Radar detectors actually worked but roads are so congested and people drive like idiots all while talking or texting many times.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Then came lasers whose signal doesn't hang around persistently like a bad fart. One instantaneous shot and...
Smile! You're on candid camera. :)
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