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In Reply to: RE: Yes, that's it posted by 1973shovel on March 13, 2017 at 14:26:30
Similar if not matching case dimensions too.
But one was rimmed and matched the .303 British, (used in the cockpit/nose 'vickers' guns of IJN aircraft like the Zero), one was semi-rimmed and one was rimless.
I think the type 99 fired the 7.7mm rimless round.
I think the ballistics of all three were the same, too!
The 99 and its 6.5mm predecessor are accurate rifles, as they are based on a Mauser action. Stock quality and finish tended to be poorer as the war went on.
Imagine the poor Japanese supply guys ???!!! making sure to send the right rounds to the right platoon, company or battalion. Nightmare.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Follow Ups:
I just bought two 303 cleaning brushes for my Arisaka.
I only wish the Japanese supply guys had a more difficult time than they did, Timbo!
Yes, the origin of the 7.7x58 is apparently the parent machine gun round.
Not familiar with the rimmed version! What was that used in or for?
And yes, the 303 was probably the 'target' ballistics to match while the entire arms making planet standardized on the 1898 Mauser Action in one form or another. Even the US Springfield Rifle, IIRC.
Several rifles blew up in testers faces but it would appear they were UN hardened drill rifles never meand for a round but a 'blank' of lower pressure.
End of war weapons of this type should not be fired unless FIRST checked by a gunsmith. Hardness of metal should be part of the inspection.
Any way you slice it, this is a medium bore rifle which may not be the best choice for the larger and meaner pigs. Maybe 7mm mag? The heavier bullets, like 165 or 175 grain REALLY pack a lot of energy. Bacon, anyone?
Too much is never enough
The round is interchangeable with .303 British.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Very similar but not the same.
The 7.7X58mm were IJA rounds. The 7.7X56 was an IJN copy of the .303.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Neither of the Japanese rounds a ballistic 'monster'.
And in aircraft use, not even CLOSE to the 50cal browning stuff on US aircraft of the day.
Too much is never enough
Bear in mind that the Zero carried a 20mm cannon in each wing. The really weakly armed WWII Japanese fighter was the IJA's Oscar. Initially just2 rifle calibre MGs, and later two relatively week 12.7mm jobs.
The ANM2 .5" Browning HMG was the 2nd best aircraft Heavy MG of WWII. They worked 'well enough' in USN and USAAF fighters. Once they were installed in quantity (6 or 8) and were just effective enough to last out the war. Given the difficulties of the US's 20mm program at the time. Your fighter pilots were lucky. See the table in the article attached.
OTOH in 1940 the RAF's Hurricane MkIs could have carried 4 of them, as Belgium's airforce and Fabrique Nationale did try this out. Too late to matter.
Ballistics became of interest to me after doing my marksmanship and coaching course, and partly because I was still hunting, and planned to start reloading. I found a copy of 'Guns of the RAF' in the local public library.
More recently I came across a site based in the UK, one article of which is right on the money about WWII fighter armament. Click below!
The site has another article on the sorry tale of the USA's WWII attempts to get the Hispano 20mm into service. Mostly due to an ammunition greasing / case sizing issue. The whole site is worth a read.
I bet you'd find it fascinating.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Interesting table.
I knew about how short the effective range was for aircraft mount MGs. But the Germans did have great luck with the thru-prop-hub 20mm cannon of the '109. Very Destructive.
I know the US P38 had a cannon, having a LOT of room in the nose, but don't know about others so equipped.
When I worked for the county in which I lived, I visited the Ballistics / Crime Lab and they had in their possession, a 20mm AntiTank Rifle of WWII vintage.
I have NO idea what a citizen was doing with THIS particular piece of history. And AMMO!
Too much is never enough
The thought did cross my mind, just before I pulled the trigger, knowing the gun hadn't been fired in a long time, probably since around 1968, when my brother took a deer with it.
But I did my homework, and knew this 99 was an early model, in part because of the knurled safety on the end of the bolt. As mentioned, I did have my friend video the first shot, just in case it blew up on me. I figured that would make for an interesting video.
Thanks for all the feedback!
For sure. You ever see or fire a Nambu type 14 pistol? Later war variants had notoriously poor finish and QA. Still, better than the Type 26 revolver. Which, I'm told were even dangerous as unloaded hammers.
8^)
Not a collector and don't know much or anything really, about the 'exotics'.
Late war quality suffered for ALL axis powers. Everything from outrite Sabotage to simpler stuff like poor welds and finish.
This applies across the board from small arms to tanks and aircraft.
I woudn't know a Nambu if it fell out of the sky on me. I'll bet getting ammo is a real treat. And if the round was low-powered, getting it rechambered for something better than 380 auto might even be dangerous.
If I could collect a single piece? Make mine the RARE 45acp Luger. I think they made several for US trials and destroyed one in the process. The remaining samples are VERY valuable.
If I had a collectible-style shooter? A reproduction Sharpes would be neat. In 45-70 smokeless. BOOM!
I'd love to join a gun club and see if I could qualify for a DCM issue M-1 Garand. I'd settle for a good condition shooter and put it over the fireplace.
Too much is never enough
"A reproduction Sharpes would be neat. In 45-70 smokeless."
A buddy of mine and his wife both shoot an original Sharps chambered in .45-110. Competitions take place at 800 yards, but it's all black powder. He does all of his loading with a drop tube, and FWIW, he says she's better than he is. He's one helluva leather worker, too, as evidenced by the photo. That holster is entirely hand made - one of a kind.
The M1 Garand is a fine firearm, although they're not cheap these days. My understanding from a friend (who's a 30-year retired staff sergeant) is that you have to be somewhat careful about the loads you use in it, though.
Terrific 'cowboy' leatherwork'. Lots of time involved in something of that quality and look.
I went to the DCM site and WOW. Far MORE money than I remember. And some grades not available any more. I guess I waited about 30 years too long!
Too much is never enough
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