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In Reply to: RE: Awesome! posted by 1973shovel on March 13, 2017 at 08:14:20
How hard is it to find Arisaka cartridges?
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My friend said he has found them once or twice at gun shows, generally paying around $50 US for a box of 20. It's not something I could walk into Cabela's, Bass Pro, or an average gun store and buy.
My brother gave me nearly 60 rounds, so that should last me the rest of my life, if I only continue to shoot a few rounds every few years for sentimental reasons.
I haven't hunted in over thirty years. However, our state's conservation department is practically begging hunters to get out and take wild hog and coyote, both of which are overrunning the state, the hogs causing millions of dollars in crop damage. I might be coaxed out of retirement if I feel I'm doing some good for the environment, in which case this Arisaka may see more use than it has in many years.
As an FYI, I edited my other post to include a different video, one that explains the anti-aircraft sights in greater detail.
I be real careful hunting PIG with this guy.
The 7.7mm (roughly 30 cal) is fairly low speed and depending on bullet weight, maybe not enough delivered energy for a BIG or MEAN pig.
Exterior ballistics similar to a .308 can be achieved thru careful handloading.
Bullet weights from 125 grain UP are available for handloading.
Deer? Forever. I'd give max hunting range at in the 200 yard area. After that, depending on ballistics, you might have lost too much energy.
Bear? I don't think so. Especially if you go up North for Griz or to Alaska for a big Brown.
For 48 state pig? Something with a real whallop is indicated. 7mm mag? 338 Winchester?
Maybe even one of the Weatherby Magnums ($$$$)
Too much is never enough
But I'd keep my .357 on my hip as backup. I've seen some of those youtube hog charge videos, and I can imagine needing to change hunting pants after an experience like that.
Is that a 7.7 mm round? The website linked below refers to a "7.7 mm Jap", which at $28 for 20 rounds seems a good price, provided it's the round you're looking for,
7.7 mm JAP is the official designation. If they actually have it and sell it for the price they're showing then I'd be able to do more than a few ceremonial shots every few years.
I'm going to contact them and see. Thanks!
Similar if not matching case dimensions too.
But one was rimmed and matched the .303 British, (used in the cockpit/nose 'vickers' guns of IJN aircraft like the Zero), one was semi-rimmed and one was rimless.
I think the type 99 fired the 7.7mm rimless round.
I think the ballistics of all three were the same, too!
The 99 and its 6.5mm predecessor are accurate rifles, as they are based on a Mauser action. Stock quality and finish tended to be poorer as the war went on.
Imagine the poor Japanese supply guys ???!!! making sure to send the right rounds to the right platoon, company or battalion. Nightmare.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I just bought two 303 cleaning brushes for my Arisaka.
I only wish the Japanese supply guys had a more difficult time than they did, Timbo!
Yes, the origin of the 7.7x58 is apparently the parent machine gun round.
Not familiar with the rimmed version! What was that used in or for?
And yes, the 303 was probably the 'target' ballistics to match while the entire arms making planet standardized on the 1898 Mauser Action in one form or another. Even the US Springfield Rifle, IIRC.
Several rifles blew up in testers faces but it would appear they were UN hardened drill rifles never meand for a round but a 'blank' of lower pressure.
End of war weapons of this type should not be fired unless FIRST checked by a gunsmith. Hardness of metal should be part of the inspection.
Any way you slice it, this is a medium bore rifle which may not be the best choice for the larger and meaner pigs. Maybe 7mm mag? The heavier bullets, like 165 or 175 grain REALLY pack a lot of energy. Bacon, anyone?
Too much is never enough
The round is interchangeable with .303 British.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Very similar but not the same.
The 7.7X58mm were IJA rounds. The 7.7X56 was an IJN copy of the .303.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Neither of the Japanese rounds a ballistic 'monster'.
And in aircraft use, not even CLOSE to the 50cal browning stuff on US aircraft of the day.
Too much is never enough
Bear in mind that the Zero carried a 20mm cannon in each wing. The really weakly armed WWII Japanese fighter was the IJA's Oscar. Initially just2 rifle calibre MGs, and later two relatively week 12.7mm jobs.
The ANM2 .5" Browning HMG was the 2nd best aircraft Heavy MG of WWII. They worked 'well enough' in USN and USAAF fighters. Once they were installed in quantity (6 or 8) and were just effective enough to last out the war. Given the difficulties of the US's 20mm program at the time. Your fighter pilots were lucky. See the table in the article attached.
OTOH in 1940 the RAF's Hurricane MkIs could have carried 4 of them, as Belgium's airforce and Fabrique Nationale did try this out. Too late to matter.
Ballistics became of interest to me after doing my marksmanship and coaching course, and partly because I was still hunting, and planned to start reloading. I found a copy of 'Guns of the RAF' in the local public library.
More recently I came across a site based in the UK, one article of which is right on the money about WWII fighter armament. Click below!
The site has another article on the sorry tale of the USA's WWII attempts to get the Hispano 20mm into service. Mostly due to an ammunition greasing / case sizing issue. The whole site is worth a read.
I bet you'd find it fascinating.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Interesting table.
I knew about how short the effective range was for aircraft mount MGs. But the Germans did have great luck with the thru-prop-hub 20mm cannon of the '109. Very Destructive.
I know the US P38 had a cannon, having a LOT of room in the nose, but don't know about others so equipped.
When I worked for the county in which I lived, I visited the Ballistics / Crime Lab and they had in their possession, a 20mm AntiTank Rifle of WWII vintage.
I have NO idea what a citizen was doing with THIS particular piece of history. And AMMO!
Too much is never enough
The thought did cross my mind, just before I pulled the trigger, knowing the gun hadn't been fired in a long time, probably since around 1968, when my brother took a deer with it.
But I did my homework, and knew this 99 was an early model, in part because of the knurled safety on the end of the bolt. As mentioned, I did have my friend video the first shot, just in case it blew up on me. I figured that would make for an interesting video.
Thanks for all the feedback!
For sure. You ever see or fire a Nambu type 14 pistol? Later war variants had notoriously poor finish and QA. Still, better than the Type 26 revolver. Which, I'm told were even dangerous as unloaded hammers.
8^)
Not a collector and don't know much or anything really, about the 'exotics'.
Late war quality suffered for ALL axis powers. Everything from outrite Sabotage to simpler stuff like poor welds and finish.
This applies across the board from small arms to tanks and aircraft.
I woudn't know a Nambu if it fell out of the sky on me. I'll bet getting ammo is a real treat. And if the round was low-powered, getting it rechambered for something better than 380 auto might even be dangerous.
If I could collect a single piece? Make mine the RARE 45acp Luger. I think they made several for US trials and destroyed one in the process. The remaining samples are VERY valuable.
If I had a collectible-style shooter? A reproduction Sharpes would be neat. In 45-70 smokeless. BOOM!
I'd love to join a gun club and see if I could qualify for a DCM issue M-1 Garand. I'd settle for a good condition shooter and put it over the fireplace.
Too much is never enough
"A reproduction Sharpes would be neat. In 45-70 smokeless."
A buddy of mine and his wife both shoot an original Sharps chambered in .45-110. Competitions take place at 800 yards, but it's all black powder. He does all of his loading with a drop tube, and FWIW, he says she's better than he is. He's one helluva leather worker, too, as evidenced by the photo. That holster is entirely hand made - one of a kind.
The M1 Garand is a fine firearm, although they're not cheap these days. My understanding from a friend (who's a 30-year retired staff sergeant) is that you have to be somewhat careful about the loads you use in it, though.
Terrific 'cowboy' leatherwork'. Lots of time involved in something of that quality and look.
I went to the DCM site and WOW. Far MORE money than I remember. And some grades not available any more. I guess I waited about 30 years too long!
Too much is never enough
Funny. The Germans never put that sight on their Mauser 98s. And that gun did see action in WW1. With slow WW1 recon planes.
Ever fire one of these German guns? Quite a kick. I've never shot an Arisaka. Friend has several 30-06 Mannlicher Schoenauer 1952, with telescopic sights. That gun has one wicked kick.
From 1940 on the Brits came to believe that it was best for troops to shoot back at Stukas et al, rather than cower on the ground.
WWII era dive bombers like Stukas were actually pretty easy targets if you have a good director* feeding the gun. * analogue computer sometimes radar fed.
For good LMG (or GPMG) teams with a tripod, it's not that hard either. Need to not void yourself while shooting though ;-)!!
It's because of the steep, 'straight and slow' dive.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
a good firm but calm hold is the only way to absorb the kick, and I'm a little bloke, though I've put on some weight of late ;-)!
The FAL or SLR L1A1 kicked hard if you didn't hold it right. I always used to get a bruised cheek-bone on the range, until I did the course I mentioned. ? When I found out that there were three different butt lengths, and gave me a 'slur' with the one that fit me.
Improved my shooting a lot.
My restocked (to fit me), sporterised and re-barrelled M1917, in .30-06 could kick hard if you didn't hold it firmly. You do NOT want a scoped rifle to kick. This had a quick release mounting and a big wide peep sight for close country shooting.
Pigs and deer? IME you need to be good at shot-placement to take them with a 6mm cartridge, and you should use a heavy-ish bullet.
Any .30 inch Mach2 plus cartridge should be fine. But a .30-06 is way the best.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I have not had the pleasure. In that first video I posted, the guy said that because the Arisaka 99 is light, it has quite a bit of felt recoil.
It didn't seem too bad to me when I shot those five rounds a few weeks ago. But then, my standard for recoil is my old Ithaca spring (as opposed to gas) recoil 12 gauge semi-auto, with a hard butt-plate stock, which came with no recoil pad. I've owned the shotgun since I was 15.
My friend shoots a variety of guns (both his, and his friends), often a few times per week. We went out one afternoon and he didn't know it, but I had slugs in the Ithaca (he assumed I was shooting low brass because he had them in his Mossberg). I shot it three or four times and handed it to him. He took one shot, groaned, handed it back, and wouldn't shoot it again.
Not that there aren't harder kicking guns, but so far my Ithaca sets the standard for anything I've shot.
Those are different beasts, compared to rifles --- in terms of kick. No?
Do you reload? Maybe cheaper than getting Arisaka ammo, from dealer. That's a great rifle with personal history. Was your Dad in the Marines?
I am saving the 7.7 brass though, figuring sooner or later I'll find someone who does reload them.
My dad was in the Navy.
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