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In Reply to: Re: Beauhorn Virtuoso Ref. posted by Steve on November 11, 2000 at 13:49:24:
Steve, you're quite right, I didn't want to get sucked into this kind of semi-futile tit-for-tat and I certainly don't want to knock another manufacturer's product that I recognise is very good.But your implication now is that there is some kind of compression produced by the Beauhorns and not the AGs.
Steve, if you want to have the last word, and I suspect you will, go ahead, but I'll just quote Thorsten (yet again!):
"In all conventional disciplines (frequency response, phase response, load compatibility this system matches or exceeds anything I ever encountered and when it comes to low distortion and compression I have yet to encounter better. This is most definitely absolute reference grade performance."
Take it up with Thorsten :-)
Eric
Follow Ups:
Dear Eric,First let me admit that my last post was purely manipulative, for which I apologise.
Its real purpose was to illustrate the complete futility of this claim, counter claim routine. You see how easy it is on a public website to put a spin on anything!
In reality, I very much doubt that Beauhorns compress the signal, but from my own experience, I'm equally certain that Avantgardes wouldn't mask digititis. But as long as the claims are out there on a public forum, they have to be addressed, to the detriment of both manufacturers!
This thread does illustrate to some extent the downside of specialist public forums. People are free to make whatever claims they like. They may be based on controlled testing, long experience, quick impressions, misapplications of a product, poorly executed demos, ignorance or downright malice. Who's to know?
If you look at how this thread developed, it started with someone claiming how good the Beauhorns are then unfortunately went on to inaccurately assign several negatives to the Avantgardes. Its ended with the manufacturer of Beauhorns discussing whether his speakers sound harsh or compressed.
Given that Beauhorns and Avantgardes are two of the finest products in Hi-fi that I am aware of, that's a shame. Both products should be receiving only rave reviews, but that's simply not the nature of our competitive society.
Steve
Steve, I started this thread. I did not "inaccurately assign several negatives to the A.G." What I heard (in many systems, mainly unos and duos) is what I heard. This is also an opinion shared by others, not just me. I also know many people who disagree. This is great! I also followed up by expressing my respect and admiration toward all of the Avantgarde designs (especially the trios). My opinion is just as valid as yours. You are not "the" expert. Your opinion is only yours and "not" the only opinion. Look at all the interest that has been generated, most, sincere and in good nature. Public forums are just that, public. Like I said in a previous post, this is suppose to be "fun". Why now, the false accusations, baiting and deceptions? This does not stregthen your positiion but, severely harms it. You are right, they both are "two of the finest products in hi-fi". Horns and high efficency speakers of any design are a breath of fresh air in an industry dominated by macho power and compressed boxes. Let us celebrate this, debate the pros and cons and most importantly, respect each other and have fun. Jeffrey
Jeffrey,You are quite right. Mine is not the only opinion.
On the Avantgarde website there are around 30 references to reviews, which represent most of the world's best known mag- and web-zines. That encompasses a pretty wide sampling of individual tastes, preferences and opinions, I'm sure you'd agree
Now, if you can find one review to corroborate your findings, performed by a reviewer who actually had Avantgardes in his/her system to test, I will publicly apologise for my assertion that your comments were specious i.e superficially plausible but in reality completely wrong.
Steve
oh. and my reason for the little subterfuge? Simply to illustrate how easy the 'Spin' game is to play
Steve, I am right, yours is not the only opinion, unfortunately, you cannot accept and or understand that. If you want people to accept and respect your opinion, check your arrogance and leave the deception thing alone. THIS IS NOT COOL!!!! I have repeated many times in these posts my admiration towards the Avantgardes. If I could afford a pair of Trios, I might have bought them. As far as the reviews go, I certainly don't need a reviewer's blessing to know what I should or shouldn't listen to. I hear in the Beauhorns what I was hoping to hear in the AGs. I cannot change this fact. I am sure there are amazing systems out there with Avantgardes. Right now , the Beauhorns represent a window into a world of recorded music that I find more real, honest, refreshing and emotionally satisfying than any other speaker I have ever listened to. Jeffrey
Dear, Jeffrey.There is a very fine deference (in my vocabulary) between the “They put to shame any of the AvantGardes ” and “If I could afford a pair of Trios”. I noted that people who actually can not afford some products express a majority of angry comments about those products. Why, Jeffrey? Is it a revenge or an attempt to justify “your choice”?
Romy, the Space Cat
The extortionate representative of Avantgard horns and Beauhorns speakers within Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
Precision dropping of special designed aerodynamic horns (from the orbit) on the planets of your choice
Call 555-1212 and ask Fillex the Cat by saying "Meow!" 46 times
We accept Visa, MasterCard and bribes by dried mice
Romy, I bought a pair of Avantgarde Trios and changed my mind the day I was to take delivery. I knew I couldn't "afford" to have a speaker which I felt shouted at me and then boomed!!!!!!!!! So, I backed out.I am sure the rewards are worth it but, I am not willing to be subservient to a pair of speakers. I have more in my life than struggling with my hi-fi. I guess there goes your revenge theory. I think you are spending way to much time in your litter box. Try reading "101 Uses for a Dead Cat". That should give your life some purpose. Jeffrey
Never lick your steak knife
It is OK, Steve. He has declared his defeat publicly. Isn’t it technology beautiful? A couple centuries ago I had to kill him in the duel! The unfortunate fact that that dying he dragged with himself a generally listenable speakers. O, well! You never know…
Jeffrey,I tried not to stick my miserable attitude in this conversation but… I would like to note that the way you started this thread (“They put to shame any of the AvantGardes I have experienced”) it is the way is doing on.
I do familiar with subject of this conversation. I am not against you sharing your enthusiasm about Beauhorns (I let it go at this point). I am against your intention to express a “compiled opinion” about the subject with which you are not familiar at all (I mean Avantgards). I know you think you do. I know you think that people who demoed it for you think they do. Well, the Advantages (Trios) are not just the speakers… they are a measurement devise of how bad person is. The folks who did Advantages for you just did not pass the test….
Now, about the fun you proposed. It is very unfortunate fact that this AA’s thread, with you help, going form “How to get better sound” move to the dissuasion “how to sell more speakers”. I do not think it was your intention but it is pretty mach where it ended up and your “They put to shame…” phrase actually did it.
Jeffrey, thank for sharing your opinion. Enjoy your Beauhorns, have fun and should you sometime in future willing to learn more then I wish you to be bless by opportunity to be exposed to proper Advantages setup.
Best regards,
Romy, the quiet CatPS: Certain statements you made have forced me to write following tangentional preface:
No one question your freedom to express. When I was in elementary school I exercised this freedom by blessing my teacher dally with new discovery of the world. Then when I got older I realized that there were inevitable steps that perception should follow through in order to be able to drop a generalization or abstract reality up to the point to be able to convert an option into the rules. If an individual with premature perception express a “new rule” then it will not become an axiom (it may serve short-term marketing purpose though) Meow!
geeeeeeeez! I'm not sure how to respond. I don't speak or understand that language. Could you try to be more cryptic next time?
I guess your assumption is I don't know what I am talking about, have no right to express an innocent but, yes, enthusiastic observation since it is not based in science or formal hypothesis. I am truly sorry I have never heard a system based on any of the Avantgarde designs that I could live with ( I have certainly tried and wanted to and sure hope to). My immediate impressions of the Beauhorns where so much more satisying. I certainly didn't imply the Beauhorns are the greatest speaker ever made , the last word or the "cats meow" ( which I now understand only you can give that blessing to). Please, burn me at the stake, ban me from hi-end elitism, put me out of my heretical misery. I would also like to thank you for promoting me to the number 1 Beauhorn sales person. If this is true, I guess you are no longer Romy the "cat" or "The horn guy" or whatever you are calling yourself tonight but, none other than Mr. Avantgarde. Nice to meet you. Jeffrey
Here it comes! It is a democracy and freedom of the speech! Everybody can do everything! Even me! Well, I do not think that anybody else is in this good situation as I: being paid to write in AA. (I am catsiting a wonderful 170 pound, black, fuzzy puma named Lucky and while she is sleeping and I can do my AA posting while I’m generating my billable hours!)Jeffrey,
I usually teach by associations. You can bullshit during “double blind tests”, you can “look wrongly” at the handle of measuring devise but you can not **** (sorry for my French) with what you feel. Let me explain what I feel regarding your position…
Pretend you’re just lost your virginity 18-year-old girl. You came to a retired whore and are trying to share which her how beautiful and magnificent was your yesterday’s experience. The retired whore is understand your excitement and she is very happy for you but she would like to prevent you for writing a Bible at this point…
Ops! My sweet fuzzy pussy just woke up! Probably I hit the keyboard too enthusiastically. I should do to pet her behind her ear… purrr…purr…
Meow.
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