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In Reply to: Re: You better believe it posted by nilemi on January 07, 2002 at 20:31:11:
kh
systems online | asylum listing
Follow Ups:
You are the first person on this planet to report that the AER is anything less than "completely spectacular". Perhaps you should post a detailed rundown of your rig?There must be a weak spot that is making things sound less than ideal.
Folks: Imagine how I feel! No time right now to do the inventory. Jurek Nowak in Australia suggested that the AER Mk 1 is not suitable for the Oris 150 horn. So far that is my impression. I have a temporary lash up until the bass boxes arrive and am driving it with an Odyssey Stratos. Believe me the combination is bad. Michael
Michael, I suggest that you contact Bert Doppenberg directly (or via his own board) as there are a couple of tweaks that you can try to help matters.As mentioned in my e-mail, the Oris 150 was originally designed for the Lowther PM4A. This has the most powerful magnet (2.4 Tesla).
The Oris 150 also works well with the DX4 (2.2 Tesla) but has slightly less "bite" and drive but is smoother.
The AER Mk1 has a much smaller magent at 1.9 Tesla and the characteristics of this driver are different to the Lowthers.
The AER Mk1 is a great driver, in the right cabinet.
Regardless, I cant imagine this sounding too lovely as the bass drivers would surely round out the sound. To me, this setup would sound artificially thin and very problematic, especially when driven with something like an.....
Odyssey Stratos!!!
So you are actually driving your AER Mmk1 with a 150wpc solid state amplifier???? Hmmmm....I have no idea why it would sound unpleasant.... LORDY! The fact that you can STAY IN THE SAME ROOM is something to applaud! Just imagining this combination makes my ears ring!
I find it hard to believe you would actually comment on such a partnering - indeed, if I ran my vintage Klipsch '77 Cornwall I with a 150w SS amp, I would be evicted from my sorry abode and charged with Crimes Against Humanity!
My ears are STILL ringing from the thought of it...
kh
systems online | asylum listing
Well... if you go to Bert's web page and look at the page on the AER Mk1 you will read that he, the writer, believes that SS amps work just fine with the Mk1. Now I don't know who to believe. I am encouraged that some beleive that the combination should sound bad. On Wednesday a Decware Zen should arrive and may improve the situatuion. However, I don't know what it can do for the cavity resonance and the quack that develops at higher volumes. Maybe these are just SS artifacts, I hope so. I want a system that is better than my North Creek Rhythm Unlimiteds especially dynamically. I want a system that sounds relaxed at high volumes. I love the things that you guys say about your experiences of horns and SETs. As for the bass, I am using a VMPS Larger. Guys this is a temporary lash up. I have bins coming with Lambda TD15xs and PRs for the bottom. I could not wait to listen. I did a long exchange of e-mail with Mr. Nowak and his opinion was that the Mk1 is not suitable for the Oris 150 and Bert does not recommend it. If my experience can help someone else avoid this mistake, if it is a mistake, then good. Is there anyone out there who is using the AER Mk1 with the Oris 150? What are your impressions? Michael
The AER Mk1 may not be suitable for the Oris 150 (I dunno, I'm using DX3's), but it shouldn't sound "bad", just not as good as other drivers. 'Sucks' is just not in the picture...Thus, I suspect some other system problems, probably due to poor bass integration. Do not underestimate the impact of the bass cabinet, amp and crossover on the sound of the Oris. There is a huge amount of information below 160Hz and it will really make the horn sound bad if you're not careful.
The midbass module must be able to reach up to 220Hz or so or you'll get a really thin, shouty midrange. If you're using a typical subwoofer instead of a midbass unit thats your problem - end of story.
The horns should be allowed to rolloff naturally, which will be around 160-180Hz, depending on the driver. The midbass should have around a 160-180Hz/12dB/oct rolloff, and the signal to the woofer should be inverted or you'll get midbass suckout. Finally, you need to acoustically align the bass module drivers with the AERs to lose the muddy, slow bass effect (move it forward and back while listening).
The horns are easily 107db/watt efficient (maybe more with the AERs) and if your midbass cabinet/amp combo can't keep up with them you'll get that nasty midrange again. I use DIY LaScala midbass cabinets with Klipsch K33E drivers and a Citation V PP tube amp with a tube xover. I started with a SS amp on the midbass and it sounded bad. Switching to tubes warmed the entire sound up tremendously. I would get tubes for the horns and the midbass if you biamp (I run 2A3's on the horns).
So - chances are your Oris/AER can sound really great but you've not given it the chance because of a less than optimal midbass setup.
Good luck,
Pete Fowler, Austin TX
I spent a decent amount of time in every room. The AER/Oris setup had the most natural, realistic midrange at the show. Truly stunning. Bass integration was a little off but the room was small.
Lastly I've been living with this borrowed ugly piece of badly soldered parts (absolutely no congratulations to the one-armed half-blind solder slinger who did the sloppy job at Decware...).While I'll admit it's better than most 499 USD amplifier, it's far from being a plesant amp to listen too.
As for the AER mk 1 in the Oris, Bert recommend the modified AER with Alnico magnet. The AER mk 1 is at it's best in a rear loaded horn.
... and now I've gone and bought one!I thought you said it was the "magic" first Quebecian watt!???
What am I to do? First the Ashetrays...now this!
Will the mistakes never cease?
kh
Sorry for the confusion, it was BBQ Jimmy who loved the thing sitting in his Coral sofa.I said "The first watt is sooooooo tragic"... not "magic". I'll put that on my funny french accent (or is it that Klipsch abusing led to a deaf Kelly!)
BBQ Jimmy! I knew he was at the bottom of this!The swine!
Tragic..magic...what's the difference? All I know is
I am shipping this SV83 sculpture up to Quebec and billing
it to Nancy.I dont know why you had them send it here anyway! It's cheaper
to mail direct! I got the one with the black chassis for
the extra 2 watts it provides; I knew you would approve!BTW, it sounds like a 150w amp through my Klipsch Cornpuffs!
Too bad you have that lousy AER Mk1 in those Lamporns...I'll send you a link to a vintage Cornstall via ebay. They are
cheap now at 1200!kh
Can you ship the Cary SP70 (or whatever that thing is called...) at the same time. I may use the trannie of your beloved Deluxe Zen to replace the SP70 trannie you lost God knows where. In fact, keep the rest of the Zen to hot rod your ASUSA EL-34 headache generator!The Zen/Cornpops combination must have made Audrus changed his mind about living with old fart in a trailer park. I heard she just mailed herself to Quebec City.
tank you tank you.Youse guys...
Kelly, read your mail, dammit.
r
I don't even know what you guys are talking about and I think it's a hoot. Beats digging the paper out of my jammed-up printer too.
John
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