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In Reply to: RE: Help Needed Selecting The Right Hi-Efficiency Subwoofer posted by thetubeguy1954 on May 02, 2017 at 12:34:42
Integrating a sub with these is a bear. First, because the horn is loaded by the back of the driver, it means that bass is out-of-phase. And then, because the bass has to travel through the horn path, it has a delay. If at all possible, get a subwoofer amp that has variable phase response. This allows the best integration with the time delay of the horn. Be prepared to spend some time getting integration right. For what it is worth, Rythmik subwoofers are what I prefer.
If you really want high efficiency, plan on building a closed box and then equalizing the bass response. Only alternative is a really huge box. The AE TD18H+ is a fine choice for a DIY project.
Jon Ver Halen
People all the time complain that the subwoofer is not "fast enough" to keep up with a Lowther. If it is a backhorn, most people will want to place the subwoofer in line with the speakers, hence the subwoofer will be out of phase with the backhorn and, of course, they conclude that the subwoofer is too slow.
What they need to do is move the subwoofer back until they are phase aligned with the backhorn bass. The problem is if they room is not large enough and cannot move the back horn speakers forward enough to allow the subwoofer to be moved back enough, their subwoofer will not be in phase with the backhorn bass. Then you need to phase-delay the subwoofer.
Having used Hedlund Horns for so many years, I was always surprised at how little the difference in phase between the front of the driver and backhorn was noticeable - maybe I subconsciously chose to ignore it. But others who heard my system did not seem to notice either.
Google up Nelson Pass' Kleinhorns And his necessary Massive Sub Assembly.
Good primer on what level of involvement it requires to get Lowthers /horns to produce a full spectrum sound.
There are Far simpler paths to good sounds.
I agree with you. It is a challenging intellectual exercise to get a single driver to cover such a wide bandwidth (i.e., 30 hz to 20 kHz). But as soon as you try to get the wide range driver to reproduce frequencies below 100 hz (using a multiorder crossover on the wide bandwidth driver, or you need to crossover over even higher), IM distortion increases exponentially.
Keep the wide bandwidth drivers to above 100 hz and find bass drivers for the rest. Of course, you can likely do better at a lower price point by using a separate midrange driver and tweeter. There are coherency issues that are challenging when trying to integrate more drivers, though.
Good point about integration, but it's incomplete.
Having horn based subs (full or tapped) means lower distortion and better transient response. If dialing in the phase is important, that is the job of the plate amplifier, not the box.
Jon thanks for the input! Hey did you ever get around to using those Azurahorns? Just wondering what you thought of them and what drivers you used with them.
I'm listening to: Cafe Blue by Patricia Barber
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
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