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In Reply to: RE: Here's one thought about why... posted by David S. on April 25, 2017 at 10:04:29
Tried a good amplifier yet?
My experience nearly always traces those "honks" and "shouts"
to amplifiers, not something else.
Some listeners also dismiss silver wire for the same reasons.
Just like the horn-loaded speakers, the superior silver wiring is
trying it's darndest to tell you something.....
Ever used a Spectral solid-state amp? No?
Quit blaming horns! Start looking for the source of
the troubles, nearly all amplifiers.
Edits: 04/26/17Follow Ups:
My IN-HOME experiences?
Solid state? Yep - Spectral DMA-50 (didn't own it)
Tube? VTL Deluxe 120 (DO still own it).
Horn speakers in question? My Ex's Klipsch KG5.5s (which I "rope caulked" the horn drivers). Still honking.
NO, not the best example of horns, but what I had at home.
Other examples are what I heard at dealers and/or shows - and I'm pretty sure the dealers and/or manufacturers thought those amp/speaker pairings were at least "reasonable" matches.
Hi Dennis, good name BTW my fathers name :)
Anyways it is of my years of knowledge that IMO and amplifier cannot fix a bad nasty shouting speaker, nor would i want too this tells me it is somehow covering up its inhearent problems (horns speakers)
now I wont re-write everything here but I will provide a link that will show exactly what i really think about horn speakers and why they are NO GOOD for audio IN THE HOME.
I am shuffleskater
Don't get me wrong, horns are very hard to implement let alone design from the driver up and that is why much of the home and DIY area consists of horns and drivers developed by engineer artisan's long before good measurements and computer modeling and design existed, proven designs (and often available used).
A creative and observant person can go a very long way without the technical help available now but it makes more sense to me to use every tool and aid you can get your hands on and to build on the library of understanding by doing tests on your own where there are a lot of blank pages.
supposed to explain what is about horn speakers you don't like? The posts I read - before the thread repeated itself ad nauseam and the generalisations, personal insults, and general willy waving became tedious - was that horns don't resemble live music because they distort and present music in an upfront way.
You are not really explicit enough in your descriptions for people to help... though if you are seeking help, you approach is counter-productive. I could be wrong, but your approach resembles trolling, though that may not be your motivation.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
"Ever used a Spectral solid-state amp?"
When I was in Beserkeley a few months ago, my friend and I went to Music Lovers Audio (again), where we heard a Spectral CD player with a Spectral preamp and Spectral monoblocks driving a pair of Wilson Alexia speakers (which, btw, I liked more than the Alexandria's). We put on a couple of recordings which I made many years ago, and, seriously, they sounded great (and I was quite pleased with myself). My friend commented that he has a lot of respect for Keith Johnson, saying (paraphrasing here) that he's one of the few guys who really does work at trying to "get it right".
I sure love my Berkeley Dacs!
Seems to me that I saw one of their products at Music Lovers - I vaguely remember a component that had their logo on the top of the case, I think. I'll check them out next time I'm in town.
Anyway, my experience with horns is that, at least in the past (say, the 1940's to 1970's designs), manufacturers tried to squeeze too much performance out of a horn. Throat size (air distortion), mouth-to-world interface (impedance matching), metal horn ringing, internal reflections, were some of the problems. The first horns which I heard that actually sounded pretty decent were the Electro-Voice CD horns - the white horns, in about '73 or '74. They blew the Altecs and JBLs away. When I was doing the sound for a little rock band in '75/'76, we had some JBL radial exponential horns which were awful, and one of my first goals was to replace them with the new E-V horns. The band was ecstatic.
Somewhere around that time period, John Meyer decided to go one step farther, and built electronics to "pre-distort" the input signal, so that the horn distortion itself would actually compliment the pre-distorted signal and result in a cleaner output. I don't remember offhand if John Curl was involved in that research or design, and I don't know what the current status of the concept is.
Anyway, horn design has come a long way since the legacy days of "traditional" exponential horns, thank goodness!
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