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In Reply to: RE: How to reproduce the full dynamics of a scissor cutting paper without clipping posted by tomservo on April 19, 2017 at 07:08:36
Don't attempt to talk down to me and others. Not all of us are audio morons. I'm listed as "audiophile" here mostly because I'm not currently a "manufacturer" or "industry professional", but I could get back into the biz if I wanted to. These days, I just do it for fun.
Loudness, frequency, perceived loudness, pitch? Duh. I learned that stuff in the early '70s.
As a musician (trumpet) and recording engineer, I totally "get" the whole waveform and peak thingy.
You don't need to yap at me about waveforms on an oscilloscope.
Sorry I didn't imply you were a moron I was trying to be clear.
I wasn't aware of your background (and still don't know) as it seemed like you had no idea what I was talking about and perhaps you didn't because this area of research was more like the 80's and 90's.
Like I said, the reality is there for anyone who is curious enough to look and it doesn't take much test equipment to do it and see what I am talking about.
You specifically stated:
"No, you do not understand."
On the contrary, I DO understand.
yes i did and that was in response to you saying something demonstrating you didn't understand the implications of how things work or what is actually required to reproduce common sounds.
Like i said, the sound level meter was in my hand, not close to the spoon or car door, those are the levels i heard but didn't judge to be "that loud" because a peak hold meter measures the sound pressure, we / our hearing system judges loudness.
Hate to have to post this, Tom. We can all see who's in the "ASShat chair" and it 'aint you. So don't respond to this troll.
Thanks Claude but when you say something another finds unbelievable but is sincere it's worth trying to explain a bit further.
Back in the 80's when the Servodrive subwoofer was born, imagine how hard it was to convince anyone that you could produce low and loud bass with a motor, now that was a challenge haha
Doing things "a different way" as opposed to parroting convention always requires explanation.
Data never lies, and you certainly have provided more of your share of that stuff!!
Really Who cares?! this system is abomination spliced together with Digital correction!, Yeah it will prob play very loud and IMO because its a horn system you would need to be across the street to hear it gel like normal folks systems wow
Your points are well taken in general horns donīt Gel immediately but in Danleyīs (tomservo) Unity type horns you can actually stick your head inside and will be unable to discern the mix of the different components. Mr Burwen system likely has the same effect. Remember this system has 50 years of a learning curve with a brilliant audio consultant working on it. By the way I have never met or had any business relations with Mr Burwen but do appreciate his work.
Hello Inmate 51: In reply to your edited non published versions
In regards to being a fan (boy) of Tom Danley I am guilty. Tom is an exceptional and kindly person a brilliant designer, inventor and a true acoustic scientist. I hold his designs in the highest regard. Additionally he takes the time to patiently pass his extensive knowledge to others as he tried to pass it on to you. I personally have learned a lot from him you would well to keep an open mind and do the same. Nobody knows everything we are all here to learn,share and enjoy. Best
Your comments are accurate about Tom sharing his knowledge openly on all these forums. He's the same way in person.
Plain text on the internet forums can run the gamut from industry giants to audio newbies. With and without egotistical personalities attached.
When I have to choose whose contribution is more valuable here, professionally speaking and with personal benefits attached, I'd rather trust someone who has designed and sold about 70 unique speakers and subwoofers over the last 15 years (many of which I own or have heard myself), with 63 of the in CURRENT production, rather than someone that claims to have done something in the past and nothing current except words.
As in the world of photography, Ansel Adams really knew how to "hang em on the wall"
In Toms case, he really knows how to make large spaces sound as good as high end hi fi in your living room. That is quite a feat in itself.
Tom has been a mentor to me indirectly from his patents and publishings and also from the occasional direct helpful contact. As an amateur speaker designer he helped me accomplish my goals but perhaps the most important thing I learned from him was this
Danley Mission Statement: To find favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. Proverbs 3:4 (This from the 2009 Danley Products Brochure donīt see it anymore in the present brochure)
Very impressive statement when the person behind it really lives up to it as he has throughout the years. I can be an intolerant aggressive prick but have learned to mellow and guide others as he has with objective patience and understanding. This perhaps has been my greatest accomplishment!!
And you are correct about Ansel Adams...had his Black and White book of fotos.
I seriously gotta post a pic.
Looks like a good idea. As a professional photographer, I do believe a picture is worth more than words (although most photographs don't merit the full 1,000 either).
There's an old saying "In God we trust, all others provide data." LOL.
I don't know what the problem is with that post. Try as I did, it doesn't show up correctly on my 'puter. Here is more-or-less what I intended:
"Your points are well taken in general horns don
OJK, it still doesn't show up correctly. Maybe there's a goofball character which is screwing it up.
Anyway, part of what I wrote was that I think Tom has a good horn design idea. I just don't think he knows everything or is a god of loudspeaker design, and it's irritating that he says I don't know what I'm talking about. As a musician and recording engineer (read my profile), that's a big slap in the face.
Regardless, based on the words you posted, it would seem you have a fragile ego and have a huge tendency to over react negatively and insultingly to anyone's perceived verbal shortcomings while trying to make their point more clear to everyone here.
Yes the message posting seems to be going crazy. I read Tomīs postings to you. He is a teacher by nature and was just making sure you got the meaning of what he was saying. Think of all the effort and time he took to pass that info to you. How may people would care or even try. I have never in more than 10 years of posting seen him insult or treat somebody as ignorant or inferior!
Today itīs still not widely known about the "silent unheard" instantaneous short term peak in the dynamics of sound events. It certainly was not tought in Sound Engineering when I was there. Mr Burwen was way ahead of his times trying to reproduce this in the 70s. Only in the late 80s and 90s was it really talked about a little. Like Tom pointed out our hearing is not linear but varies in sensitivity with volume, freq and time and will not "hear" those "instantaneous" dynamic peaks yet recordings will be "perceived" to be more realistic when the equipment can reproduce them. Just something to keep in mind especially in Sound Engineering. Best
"Today it's still not widely known about the "silent unheard" instantaneous short term peak in the dynamics of sound events"
That's is probably true for live or live mic feeds but with recorded music it's easy to know where they are and it's easy to see them.
In the age of digital recording and CDs, we know that the highest peaks are all contained within peak output of the CD player.
If a system has a gain structure such that amplifier clipping cannot be reached even when the CD player is outputing it's max (recorded signal at digital "0") and the volume control is turned all the way up, then we know for sure that those "instantaneous short term peaks" are being reproduced without the amplifier clipping.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"Your points are well taken in general horns donīt Gel immediately but in Danleyīs (tomservo) Unity type horns you can actually"
Ah, now we're getting somewhere: You're a tomservo fanboy.
"don't Gel immediately?" What does that even mean?
Read this closely: I think Tom Danley has a great horn design idea. I just don't think he knows everything or is the god of loudspeaker design.
(Edit: This is edited because it was somehow truncated when I originally posted it.)
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