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In Reply to: RE: Danley installation at the new Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta posted by Paul Eizik on April 04, 2017 at 08:05:48
"go down to the local minivan dealer and learn something"
Whoa, dude! Talk about an insult!
I haven't talked with John in probably 20 years, although I'd like to. It'd be nice to catch up - maybe we will someday. He doesn't have the time, since he's busy running a worldwide company with multiple projects going on at any given time, and our time together as teacher and student was a long time ago. We talked briefly in about '79 or '81, shortly after he started Meyer Sound and I made a feeble attempt to promote his products. We met again in about '87 or '90 or so, at InfoComm in Dallas.
Anyway, your comment was pretty harsh.
I don't have a beef with Tom Danley. He seems to be a very smart guy. We just don't always agree - for example, on the usefulness of line arrays. I quite like his approach with regard to the so-called "point source" integrated horn design, but they're not appropriate for all situations, either. Probably the biggest thing which bothers me is when he continually comes on here touting his "generational loss" "test" and his products. Outside of Audio Asylum, I've never heard of the Jericho, the SH-50, the "tapped horn", etc. It's all only because of his promotion of his stuff here. That just rubs me the wrong way.
Oh, hey, you gotta look up the "Matterhorn" low frequency high output loudspeaker. THAT was very cool!
The "mini van" comment was an attempt to make a humorous parody (in automotive terms) of your dismissive suggestion that Tom Danley contact a competitor to learn something. As to whether your suggestion or my parody is the harsher of the two, I'll leave it to the comments from the other posters from that now found original post.
I have nothing against arrays, Don Keele's CBT36 array is one of the most amazing speakers I've ever heard. With all the reverence you read in Stereophile and TAS for the "soundstage", the CBT36's really delivered, they have a stable center phantom image even if you walk towards them until you are between them! They are low efficiency though. I had Don play my fave test track: Stravinsky's Fireworks on Mercury CD, and I had him adjust the volume where I would have it at home to show off my EV horn rig. The 700 Watt amp hard clipped at one of the orchestral peaks, but it never clips on my horns with 15 Watts per channel (though I haven't watched it on a scope). This is the problem with arrays in pro-sound: whether you can accept the low efficiency in order to get the space they save over a big horn rig. I also heard the CBT36's at an AES demo with 2000 Watts and there was no clipping even at quite loud levels. Arrays have always seemed to me to take second banana to big horn rigs in pro-sound, and that's just been my experience. As far as I know I've never heard any of John Meyer's products, and I would not have any reason to make any comments either way about them. If you think the Meyer arrays sound better than Tom's Unity designs, then you should explain why, and I think you would actually need to hear Tom's Unitys to make a credible comparison, and you have not said if you have heard them.
You claim that you don't have a beef with Tom Danley other than what you see as self promotion. In the past Tom has had a stalker on this forum, and your dismissive comments and anonymous moniker have a similar style to some of the multiple personalities that person was known to use. Just a coincidence? I still dunno.
Tom has a history on this forum of offering frequent helpful discussion of what can be complex engineering concepts. Most people here would accept some self promotion, especially if it's used to explain complex acoustic subjects. Bruce Edgar once stated that much of his efforts went into educating people about common misperceptions about horns. Sound Practices editor Joe Roberts has noted the extreme resistance he encountered when he promoted horns as the ultimate speakers for the then new to the US SET's. Your main contribution here seems to be to tell people not to bother with horns. You made a comment in the post down page from this thread that the "they are here" nature of a recording is largely due to the recording itself. If this were true we could all save a lot of money and just worry about having good recordings. J.C. Morrison basically told Herb Reichert this back in the day, until Herb corrupted him by introducing him to SET's.
I don't know what your problem is regarding me, but you seem to have a bug up your butt for some reason.
In any case, you wrote:
"In the past Tom has had a stalker on this forum, and your dismissive comments and anonymous moniker have a similar style to some of the multiple personalities that person was known to use. Just a coincidence?"
You really need to back off on this, unless you're fine with being a stalker yourself.
I think Tom is a fine and knowledgeable person. We just disagree now and then. No big deal.
Did I mention the Matterhorn LOUDspeaker? Oh, yes, I DID. Did I mention that I quite like his tapped horn "point source" approach? Oh, yes, I DID.
"As far as I know I've never heard any of John Meyer's products, and I would not have any reason to make any comments either way about them."
That's all fine and good. But you've probably heard or seen them, and just don't know it. Maybe you were at AES in 2014 in L.A. His speakers were everywhere. The roster of clients is a "who's who" of musicians and concert events and venues. Anyway, it doesn't matter - as I wrote, we haven't talked in 20 years. I'm not a fanboy... he knows his stuff, and that's all. Next time I'm in Berkeley, I'll see if we can get together. Please, give it a rest.
Many of your posts are like quantum super positions in that they can be in different places at the same time. Your suggestion that Tom contact Meyer sound and learn something could be taken for instance as an insult, and Tom took the high road in his reply. Or it could be taken as hilarious with Tom taking the part of the straight man. Your posts are funnier than my one dimensional posts, and I'm just plain jealous I have to admit.
In the horn thread down page you objected to the term "beaming" being used in relation to Quads, and you suggested that the poster read Olson's Music, Physics and Engineering. I got out my Dover reprint from the 70's but there is no listing of "beaming" in the index. I decided to take a chance and used the book as a planchette on a ouija board. I waited several minutes but the book never moved, though I mentally prepared myself for a message such as "Renounce horns!" which never came. Then it dawned on me that you can't experience beaming if there is no music playing on the speakers, and like a dope I forgot to put anything on. Very clever sir! I never would have tried this if it wasn't for you.
If you really want to distance yourself from the ghosts of sock puppets past you could try to be less argumentative and more helpful, but maybe I'm missing something there too. I suspect that you actually like horns but are making pejorative comments about them in an effort to get the prices down on vintage compression drivers. If so I salute your efforts. Of course I have to keep opening my big yap praising horns which is contra to this end. So I'll be looking for secret meaning in your posts in the future.
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