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In Reply to: RE: nope you didn't miss it -- posted by mhardy6647 on January 21, 2017 at 16:00:40
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
all the best,
I like the set up, and the room is very nice also.
Was wondering, are you using the 604-looking driver as a woofer only, with the tweeter disconnected, or is the tweeter active in it ??
If active, I was wondering about the spacing between the two tweeters, and if it created any problem. In your nice large room, from a distant listening position, it may be that you can get away with the two tweeters as set up !
Have FUN, I do too.
Spacing and "time alignment" strictly empirical (and lazily so, I might add).
An experiment in progress.
all the best,
LOL, I did a similar " time alignment ", just today.
Spent half the day moving my VOTTS and LPs, 90 degrees, to different walls in my small listening room, so the ALTECs will be equally corner loaded.
Since you are " experimenting" can I offer an inexpensive suggestion to you, that worked out quite well for me, and is easy and reversible 100% ???
Mass Load the speakers. Here is how I suggest to do it :
(1) Go to Lowe's, Garden Department. Find their concrete Patio Tile section, and ( initially, to experiment) buy ten poured concrete patio tiles. They come in grey and red concrete, I prefer the latter. The basic size I use most is about 12 by 12 by about 1.7 inches thick, and each one weighs about 16 pounds. Cost is either $1.37 a tile, or $1.87 a tile, a big BANG-for-the buck, cost versus weight !!
(2) So as not to scratch or damage the woofer's enclosure, place cardboard, or indoor-outdoor carpet on one speaker's top surface. Load just that one speaker, and A-B it versus the unloaded one. As you increase the weight, the effect will get better and better.
(3) Then, do the same Mass loading for the large horn you have, sitting on top of your woofer enclosure. LISTEN to that. Re-compare, the mass loaded, now in two places side, to your stock side. There should be better inner detail, and lower distortion, better overall resolution, on the mass loaded side.
(4) After you hear that A-B, get some more, and add it to the already loaded side, till it hardly makes any difference.
(5) Get the same amount of weight, for the other speaker side.
(6) I use early ALTEC 825 VOTT enclosures, which are only mostly 5/8th inch plywood, too thin. This mod, allowed me to keep the box 100% STOCK, yet have a sonic improvement, equal, or maybe exceeding, what bracing can accomplish. I stopped at 290 pounds added each side.
(7) I don't care how solid your box is, I am willing to bet you $20.00 this will improve your sound, and you won't look back !! Box first, horn second, then max weight, and then other side .
(8) Please, please, please, write back to me , once you try this, and tell me of your listening experience. I was SO HAPPY to have done this. My email address is above available.
Have FUN, I certainly am.
PS, Only AFTER this mass loading is done, Uncle Stu's Speaker Baffles certainly improved diction, on playback, but the mass loading is needed first, to appreciate the Uncle Stu mod.
Let me know your results !!! Thanks.
I've got ~ 200 lbs of concrete in each of my VOTT behind the curve of the horn.
helped imaging, tightened up the rattles and vibrations... speaker is less lively however I think they sound better.
moving them at this point would suck.
Concrete troweled in, filling up behind the thin curved VOTT bass horns - to the speaker baffle boards, is not irreversible.
It is not quite the same as concrete mass-loading the entire top of the enclosure. The concrete I have stacked up high at the rear of the speaker, is directly over the woofer's rear compression chamber, and it loads the side and rear walls evenly. The ones up front stabilize the top of the bass horn, particularly, the large open mouth.
Then, I mass load the tweeter horn, and external crossover.
I have never tried it with horns (no room) but using cinderblocks for speaker stands made a noticeable improvement. It is worth a try. It doesn't cost much.
Works GREAT on my small speakers. You need to mass load the TOP of the speaker. With classic Fulton FMI 80 bookhelves, ( an eight inch and two 2 and a quarters ) in my room, two months ago, I added 16 pound " patio pavers " incrementally, until I stopped hearing much of a difference. It took THREE added. ( 48 pounds per speaker ). Lovely !!
I would / could, NOT go back and listen to my FMI 80s at all, bare, AFTER doing that step-by-step incremental mass increase.
The VOTTs were the same, and I stopped around 290 pounds each. Wonderful and CHEAP.
Like hearing inner detail? Like lower distortion? Like understanding the diction, the words they are singing? Like less driver to driver intermodulation ? Then THIS easy, reversible, and CHEAP mod of mine needs to be TRIED !!!
Pictured above is my very earliest 2015 attempt at incremental mass loading, using my LP boxes ( I have 10,000 LPs, most in boxes for now ). On 12-20-2015, I ended up INCREMENTALLY stopping at 259 pounds, five boxes...sounded better than four !!
The use of " patio pavers " solution, I've came up with, to replace the LPs, I feel is most elegant as a solution. Cost versus performance....hard to beat.
Took 3 incrementally. There is no going back to stock, undamped now, after hearing it. Actually, I went to the ALTECS , hard to beat em, unless you own WWII Klangfilm, from what Dennis Fraker teaches me.
Not sure if it would work well with my speakers (Spendor BC-1's with thin-wall damped Baltic Birch cabinets). Of course it would not cost much to try.
Its not just the cabinet you are damping, but its the kinetic motion of the drivers. In all three speakers I tried, it was VERY positive. Buy six or maybe eight and LISTEN for yourself, in 16 pound increments. Report what you hear. Big hardware stores are open all-day Saturday.
Yes, I have thought, more than once, about 'resonance control -- and I could use some "pavers" any way for a springtime project :-)
all the best,
I have a photo from my early / initial 12-20-2015 experiments ( increments of LP boxes ) posted above in this thread.
LOL. I "know" your type. You will "kick yourself in the rear end", for waiting until spring-time, to experience this with your ALTEC music playback !! :-)
Visit Lowes today, and get started with just ten " patio pavers " to HEAR, on your one enclosure. Under $20.00 !!! $18.70 plus tax.
all the best,
$ 1.70 each, only 10.63 cents a pound.
How can you tell?? And not make errors??
Its a lot easier to tell, " what end is up" when you attend to all the small but very important details, some of which I outlined in my post just below.
Also, critically judge audio using your EARs.
Have fun, I sure do !! ' Am excited what Q1 and Q2 2017 will bring to my listening environment. Almost .... where I want to be.
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