|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
67.190.230.176
In Reply to: RE: Giant Horn Speakers and Time Alignment .... posted by cids on March 06, 2012 at 16:11:27
I'm not technical enough to know if mine are as mismatched as some of these or perhaps even more since my bass unit is folded.
That said, I originally attributed the unity of their sound to them being signal aligned. I was essentially bi*** slapped and told it was not primarily because of that but rather because I was listening to 2-way horns from previous 3-way horns.
I also use an active crossover with delay.
I was told to go to my active & change the delay to shove the two horns into a large disparity of misalignment. I ended up doing this.
When I went to the extremes, it was literally an echo so it was a fun experiment. That said, there was a range (and I have no recollection as to the values) where I personally could not tell much difference in the sound BUT, the important thing to me is, the coherency of them was "there" throughout most of the delay changing process. (until I got stupid with the numbers and could hear double-taps)
What that told me was in a practical sense, it's FAR more important to lose a crossover point if at all possible. In my system, adjusting for delay is more for fine tuning than a real fix for anything. (I use 2271 Us).
Personally, I tend to cringe when I see these impressive looking 3-4-5 way mega-horn systems as I have absolutely proved (to myself) that the more crossover points you can lose, the inherently better sound you will have. (presuming good horns to begin with)
Follow Ups:
Expecting a single driver to cover, satisfactorily, the entire human earing range is pure pure wishful thinking !
On the other hand, Multi-way Giant Horn Speakers can attain blissfulness but only through dealing with numerous parameters ; the tuffest ones being, undoubtedly : phasing & spatial distribution between the various drivers.
I have made the same trip as you from 3-ways to 2-ways (with bi-amping) and
my ears tell me every day that the move was fully justified.
Hornloco
" I tend to cringe when I see these impressive looking 3-4-5 way mega-horn systems as I have absolutely proved (to myself) that the more crossover points you can lose, the inherently better sound you will have. "
This is where time alignement comes in: If you have a perfectly time aligned, (read: in phase) sound system it doesnt matter how many drivers are playing or how many Crossover points you have, it will sound good.
When a driver is out of phase or mis aligned time wise, it makes a mess out of everything, when that happens it is wise to reduce the amount of drivers to minimize the clutter. But dont blame misalignment shortcomings on multiway speakers. The inability of someone to set a system correctly doesnt mean that the drivers are bad or the system is wrong!
Actually when perfectly time aligned, having a couple or more drivers playing the same frequency makes the sound fuller, more detailed, more realistic and much more interesting.
I have taken my currently signal aligned speakers and pushed the delay backwards and forward. I could tell a difference yes....BUT.... a MORE significant improvement in cohesiveness was made by dropping a crossover point.
Isn't one issue of having two drivers overlap, comb filtering? If you can blend those two drivers into a single driver, won't that by definition, clean up more problems and not cause any? (presuming said driver is capable of the range when blended)
Again... anyone can hear, like, dislike what they want. Matters not to me. As I stated above, I've already proved it to my ears by doing the experiments and actually hearing the differences.
Anyone elses milage might vary of course.
:)
'Personally, I tend to cringe when I see these impressive looking 3-4-5 way mega-horn systems as I have absolutely proved (to myself) that the more crossover points you can lose, the inherently better sound you will have. (presuming good horns to begin with)'
Yes, I have the same feeling.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
On multiple crossover points with horn drivers. For horns by nature are narrow bandwidth. And any horn system using all front horns will be 4-5 way its just how it goes. Sure one can use a full-range driver in large horn bell toss a ported cab under or EQ comp mid and say done. But to me horns sound best with compression drivers. And the best matching bass to a horn system is a horn system. If you compromise extension you can pull off 2-3 way. But if you want truly full range front horns. You end up with horn tweeter, mid, mid bass, bass and sub bass all horns. And these will not be small.
Edits: 03/07/12 03/07/12
You can do first order passive networks with no EQ with the right multiple horn combo.......been there done that (5-way for me), or you use a digital Xover and EQ the heck out of the right two-way and get great sound also (done that too).
Are you familar with the Klipsch Jubilee?
2-way folded bass horn. Stands about 5 1/2' tall, maybe 2 1/2' wide and 2' deep ("V" shaped to fit into a corner like a Klipschorn)
Won't go to the deepest depths, no arguments on that however, for general home listening, will not get its tail kicked by too many speakers out there (if any)
Two 12" compression drivers in the bass bin and in stock form, a 2" compression driver for the mid/hf horn. Some have opted for a TAD-4002 driver to replace the stock driver. A nice upgrade in sound.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: