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In Reply to: RE: Why aren't corner speakers more popular? posted by Craiger56 on June 16, 2011 at 09:36:24
I run Audio Note J/Spe speakers which are designed for corners but also sound excellent out from corners (just not as balanced or as much bass). My Wharfedale Vanguards are front ported speakers using horns and while not designed for corners sound pretty good in corners. Perhaps sealed and front ported speakers would be ok since the Audio Note's are not inexpensive.
The 10 watt amp plays stupidly loud before I get to the halfway point.
Follow Ups:
Wife and I got to hear Audio Notes just a couple weeks ago at Deetes Sound Room in Carmichael (CA) they were awesome!
Edits: 06/21/11
I am a bit surprised - usually it takes a few listens and they kind of grow on people. I remember way back when I first had a short audition the AN E did absolutely nothing for me whatsoever. Just ho-hum.
It was actually the K/spe small standmount in a shootout I was doing that really got me remembering the brand. A follow-up session with the AN-E and a Meishu integrated where I just sat down and listened - basically changed my entire view of audio reproduction. It was a kind of BLIND listening session since this was my first real listen to a SET amplifier (but I didn't know it was a tube amp since the Meishu looks like a giant Krell. I sat in amazement at the bass and piano reproduction that I never got from any speaker the 20 years prior.
Then after several albums I asked about the power - assuming it had to be a kilowatt beast of an amp. The dealer smiled and said "8 watts" and that it was a SET. But wait - SETs are that old out of date rubbish technology with lots of second order distortion and it should sound fuzzy and rolled off. Guess reading forums was a big waste of time since most on forums regurgitate false information with no actual experience.
Since then I have heard a lot of good systems but the AN E/SPE HE IMO is the best speaker that I have heard for this money. Some speakers do certain things very well but as all-rounders they it's a tough speaker to beat.
Why? The AN E (and J to a lesser extent) are sensitive enough to play very loud with low watt amps. So they're not super sensitive but in most rooms they can pound on 5-10 watts. They're efficient in that they present an easy load to amps - though not to the degree of big horns.
But that trade-off is met since I have yet to hear any horn speaker match the E(J) on the timbre tone front. Many horns sound shouty and uneven and when they get it right it usually costs many times the price. For instance I prefer the E to any of the Klipsch, Altec, Avantguarde speakers I have heard. What these speakers do though is utilize the very low powered SETs and they do have a "live scale" thwack that the E doesn't quite get. The AN's sound a little more diplomatic. Still most music isn't "big" music and the AN's still do a terrific job but just don't get the "massive" scale thing down like a Khorn. That tradeoff is met with the subtle tones and overtones and goosebump factor of smaller scale music - singer with a piano kind of music where the basic E and J are as good as any speakers I have heard from anyone. They're as close to a single driver speaker as a two way can get while beating the single drivers in the frequency envelope (read - better treble and much better bass). The Teresonic Ingenium is pretty good here too but the E and J does have a fuller landscape and more dynamic headroom at considerably less dollars.
But one factor not often mentioned is size. I really don't want a speaker to take up the whole damn room - especially if it really isn't offering an advantage doing it. I auditioned a Wilson Sophia and it's a physically big speaker compared to the AN J or E. Yet both AN speakers have deeper and IMO better bass response. Plus it sounds cohesive while the Wilson did not. The Sophia sounded good but not as good and it costs 3 times the retail price of the AN J. It makes no sense. I assume people buy with their eyes and assume because the driver is bigger or the box is gigantic that it must be better. But stick a speaker in the corners and it frees up huge amounts of your living space. The walls act as an extension of the speaker cabinet.
But housing designers for some dumb reason waste a lot of living space by creating oddly shaped rooms. Argh!
RGA, wow! I am completely on with your assessments. Not only of the ANE which is spot on, but also horns and single drivers and their relative merits. Each has it's own forte and it's fun to switch between them to revel in the things they do well. But, over time, the ANE is simply better all around and so a longer-term partner as it were.
Back to the original question, I find that there's another factor corner-horns aren't as common. In the few rooms that do have two corners for a possible corner-horn setup the darned walls are either too close or too far apart. --what are new home designers thinking? Don't they listen to music?!
Best,
Doug
It's funny but older places seem far better suited to home audio - especially for corners.
Personally, I would prefer a BIG rectangle room and I will figure out how to place things rather than some wierdly shaped "new" "cool" floorplan that limits your choices of where to put things.
The way I often describe the AN E (and J in a medium room) is to say it gets 90% of what the best horns do well and 90% of what the best panels/single drivers do well. Maybe a bit more of each percentage as you go up the line.
The problem is the best horns only get about 70% of what the best panels/single drivers do well and the best panels get about 50% of what the best horns do.
So for me the AN E represents the best "balance" of those two types of speakers. My second choice would be a big horn since I value dynamics over holographic soundstage. Third choice would be ESL/Teresonic kind of speaker - the latter I prefer since you can run SET (which so far sounds the best in terms of general technologies).
The Teresonic Ingenium is also very senstive and easy to drive - but it had some trouble with Trance/house music that the AN E doesn't have problems with. But the Teresonic is of course perfectly cohesive being a single driver and has that edge.
At CES 2010 I have two lists - 5 best rooms with speakers over $10k and 5 best rooms with speakers under $10k. It depends what you can live without. I can certainly get the perspective of people would take the Ingenium or King Sounds or on the horn front the Aporia full range or Trenner and Freidl Ra box.
Interestingly, I like the opposite perspectives.
Here were the rooms that made my top five under $10k
Audio Note E/Spe He
Gallo 3.5
King Sound Prince II (Electrostats)
Studio Electric type 3 speakers
Sonist Recital speakers (easy to drive ribbon tweeters)
Over 10K
Audio Note E/Sec sig (the $51,000 model)
Trenner and Freidl RA box (2 way horn floor ported)
Acapella High Violoncello II
Teresonic Ingenium (single driver 100db+ senstive)
Silbatone Aporia Full Ranger (Manger single driver horn)
What was interesting is that to a large degree these are wildly different designs and can get you there.
But even some of these you have to be a little careful of what you play - and some are less amplifier friendly. I thought I would hate the Gallo but on rock music and Sarah mcLachlan pop (well recorded though) it sounded terific - it's a kind of bass and openness that makes a solid case for that kindof "punch" sound.
And don't laugh - not long ago I heard Cerwin Vega CLS 215 speakers - with 2 15 inch woofers with those pink condom looking surround rubber woofers - and you know they actually sounded good - and with female vocals. I was stunned - I remembered the old days of CV when females would sound like men the bass was so overblown and muddy. But this model at an absurdly low price given the sound and "pride of ownership" factor of HUGE cabinets, is a hugely fun speaker to get people into this hobby. I would buy these over a LOT of "so-called" high end speakers that are gutless wonders.
RGA, I thought that the $15,000 Teresonic was better than the $15,000 Audio Note E at the 2010 CAS. However, the Audio Note room only had digital! BTW, I think my three-way Fulton Js are better than either the Audio Note or Teresonic. My friend's triple set of quad 57s are also fantastic!
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