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I am planning on a single driver project for this season and I can’t see spending $635 for the BK-16 Kit from Madisound. I am looking at the plans for the:- Brines Acoustics LT-2000 using the Fostex FE206E
- Martin J. King’s Virtual Fostex FE-206E project
- Decware's Nibbelin Ultraflex Loudspeakers - Model NFX – challenging design (angles??)
I have access to shop tools (table saw, router, etc) and I have already built two sets of cabinets and subs from sheets of ¾ MDF. I am planning on using plans and DIY the rest. I have SS equipment for now and a moderate sized room which I listen to my music, instrumental rock / jazz, in near field. I am looking for smooth (flat) warm mids to upper frequencies as a trade off from bass. I have sub woofers and an active xo to fill in the low end.
Which of the above is a good start or are they about the same and I should just go with the drivers from Madisound and least expensive plans? Also what about the modified Fostex FE206E driver by Decware are they worth the extra $$?
As always thanks for the help,
Joe
Follow Ups:
I haven't heard Bob Brines' Fostex TQWT's, but I have a pair of his earlier TQWT's for R/S 40-1354's. They have displaced a number of pretty durn good speakers around here as the daily drivers on the "real" hi-fi. Bob himself says the ones for the Fostexes are even better -- I have no reason to doubt him!
all the best,
mrh
That looks so great with the super tweeter on top!I may have to do the same with my extra pair of 1354s that are just sitting in boxes.
Peace,
Godzilla
... it's a Radio Shack 40-1375 planar, and it sounds really, really sweet. They were knock-offs or OEM's of a respected JVC planar of the mid (?) 1980's. Big-butt magnets on these tweeters. Efficient, too. Well, efficient enough to need some padding to use with the 40-1354's.
all the best,
mrh
umm... another awfully satisfying and ultra-simple FR design is the bass reflex enclosure for the (shielded) FE-207E designed and built by Dave J. here in MA. I am pleased to report that these live with me now :-) They are efficient and the MR is of the "2 die 4" variety. They are a little bass-shy using my EICO HF-81 as the source, but they are not shrill at all and overall are awfully, awfully beguiling. They WOULD displace the TQWT's as the default daily drivers with the EICO if the bass were a bit meatier.
all the best,
mrh
- http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hug&n=67160&highlight=FE-207E&session= (Open in New Window)
(if things don't go better then might be 2dye-N soon) do these gargle? got whizzerless FE164 on cardboard baffle and sounds unbeliveably awful at ~3/16" peak to peak - not sure if driver is broke or whether just leaves gap easily (?)I'd like something FR as nice as a magnepan - any suggestions?
The MR on the FE207E's is really sweet, and they don't suffer from the ear-piercing harshness of some of the other Fostex FR's. My 48-year-old ears find the HF plenty extended, too (and not at all unacceptably bright). I think they're tremendous-sounding drivers, especially when cost is factored in. They're not cheap, but they're not what I'd call "expensive", either.
all the best,
mrh
I hear gargle on some 15" coax. hows 207 compare with old sweeties like dynaco aperiodic 2-way? - do they play a nice drumkit, hammond organ and flute?
I'll have to drag my A-35's upstairs and A/B them. I'd expect the flute to be sweeter on the Fostexes, but the bass will definitely be better from the Dynacos.
all the best,
mrh
FWIW, I've tried a Fostex FE207 in BR box against a Dynaco A-25 and felt the A-25 was much smoother overall. The Fostex has speed and openness, but the vernerable Dyna has finess and authority. Hope that helps. Oh, and of course, the Dyna likes a bit more power than the Fostex. Now for fun, try the Dyna A-25 components in an open baffle - you pick up 3db in efficency and it sound really sweet. In this configuration you're likely going to need to supplement the bass, however.
Thanks for adding the perspective. The Fostex 207 doesn't strike me as unsmooth (though some Fostexes, like the FE-103 do), but the only direct comparisons (besides to the Adire and Straight 8's at Steve Culton's house years ago) I've done are to my TQWT's and my ESL-57's.The Dynaco drivers on an OB, eh? I suspect the bass would be comparable to the Fostex :-)
Now, don't poke fun at me re: the corner location of the TQWT and the ESL-57 in the photo! :-)
all the best,
mrh
with the T90 tweeters etc it is a good value. I will take on a more complex horn design after I have built and listened to the BK. I am more anxious to listen to a horn system then spending a month or so assembling the cabinets. I tend to do a better job on the second project when I already have a reference point.Also I’m glad you guys really offered guidance I was a bit concerned after reading Tom B’s comments because I have always read that this forum is very helpful.
Thanks again,
Joe
Then while listening to them, you might wanna build John Hasquins project, as recommended by Larry Moore. I haven't heard them but have great respect for Johns work as do a number of others.
This is a very helpful group.Don't let Tom bother you, he's often like that_grin_
Actually, Tom can be a big help at times - _bigger grin_
hows cone excursion in BK16? - does it seem to load pretty well?
A bottlehead brought a pair that he had built to my house.Heard them in my room.
Damned if they don't sound like a lot more than they cost to me and several others.
I think it's a good design that worked out well.
I wish they sold them with the cabinets prebuilt so I could recommend them to people.
if flat pack kit's grooves fit well without a lot of work then BK16 should be pretty easy to get together. did you hear them with a sub? - wonder what kinds of subs they'd like
the flat packs seem to fit pretty well -I've got clamps holding one together - dry fit seems to be good.
Was gonna glue'em up over the holiday but never got around to it.
I've had mine for a while. Expect a long breakin. I am using with a Parts Express Dayton Titanic sub and a Norh SEP 9 watt tube amp. A very lively system. When you put the cabinets together you will need lots of clamps and pay close attention to directions. I was tired and past point where I should have gone to bed. Managed to glue in 1/2 of the doubled rear panel upside down. After 15 minutes of cure time for the wood glue, it's new cabinet time. You have been warned. The kit is not difficult. Looks pretty good with a natural Watco danish oil finish. Sound much better than it looks.
The 166/167 are much flatter in the mids than the 206. Brines does a great job with the Transmission line Fe1662 floor stander.
http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/FT-1600_MkII/Main.html
I have heard it and I liked it. I'd still cross it below 60 hz, but by iteself it gives credible bass.And you don't even have to DIY.
Grazie
Amante
Looks good to me.
Also, please consider John Hasquin's Cephalopod Horn that appears in Issue #8 of the Ultra Fi Times found at www.ultrafitimes.comTo me, this CLEARLY betters any and all of what is suggested here.
There will be a follow up article, aka Part 2, in Issue #9. Issue #9 will be out shortly. However, if you any of wanna get started before that, we can work something out.
Larry
have you looked up doing a BIB? very easy ,and quick to do ,,,i have built the bk-16 (diy version), the bib is a lot less time consuming , and to my ears,,better sounding,,
good luck ,,
chris
not heard but assume RCA-Fan's BLH for 206E would sound good and construction simple with five internal panels - check his gallery and ask around for impressions
nt
all the best,
mrh
Onur's Singular design with Fostex FE206e (found on diy-systems.com with Bert's compensation network). I'm not familiar with the decware project, but I considered the Brines LT-2000 and King's virtual fostex project. Of these two, I would have chosen the Brines speaker after scouring the web and reading the few direct comparisons by folks who built both. However, there are many positive comments about both of these designs. But, the Singular design has the added benefit of being able to upgrade the driver to AER when funds allow. However, this is a big speaker (I guess that's relative).
can anyone tell me where to find plans for gordan's w.w. wall of sound design ? it was on the c&c site and looks like an interesting horn to build .looks to be a more "solid design" than a cornu spiral horn , it's reminiscent of the fostex rec. spiral horn for the 108sigma . i'd be interested in a version for the 108ez and also for the 166es-r .
and couldn't find any. Someone pinged Gordon to ask whether he would make the plan available to the DIY community and I don't think there was a response to that post.
"1st Full Range Project Advice"First? You never owned a television? Clock radio?
Beuuhh....
Tom, you are unfair.
i had a couple of systems, and i think that
there are things that only one driver systems
can do.
Agreed that they are far from doing
"everything" - can't play orchestra for instance
but they deliver a pin point imaging and have
a coherence that is hardly accessible with multi
driver systems.
That is why you will find on earth people loving them.
2"-10" on a plank or in reflex or pipe ain't gonna be able to play rap worth a shit - FR at some level is a game for the foolish white man (?)
They ain't a'gonna reproduce the sound of an Acoustic 360 with double bottoms either. ;-)
hey Tommy - U think folks would be happy if we did some reviews?could have catchy phrases like "sounds like big AM radio but priced for stoopid yuppie", "skil saw highs", "worse than Bose", "Bush Quality"...
a fullrange driver with a 1,821 gram mag makes for a wonderful clock radio or tv
1821 Grams? You mean 73 oz.? I'm an American and you know it, give me information In a frame of reference I can use, I had to get a calculator out (and digging around finding it was a minor pain in the ass, I wouldn't bother for just ANY poster here) to picture in my mind what you mean by "1821 grams".It's like when you pass by a bank with a sign that shows the temperature and it flashes both faherenheit and celsius; I don't want to know how Goddam clever they are I just want to know whether it's warm or cold. Then I almost get in a wreck watching the sign for it to change instead of watching the fucking road. I'm in Kentucky not Canada, all Canada ever did for Kentucky anyway was to disgorge Tories and Indians on us to take plunder and hair.
Faherenheit is much better anyway and based on human feelings. It's very simple; when it's 0 you know it's pretty Goddam cold out and when it's 100 it's pretty Goddam hot. Fuck a bunch of water.
Anyway I get your point (thanks to the calculator), I never saw a TV speaker with a 73 ounce magnet, that's a big magnet.Happy New Year
> > all Canada ever did for Kentucky anyway was to disgorge ToriesSorry about the Tories Tom. (a Canadian apology)
> > Fuck a bunch of water.
hahahahahahaha.
Gotta go sit in the hot tub now ;-).
Grant.
Thanks Tom, First good laugh of the new year!!
Best Wishes
Rich
Fostex fe206esr grams num looks more impresive but even at 73oz its not another wimpy chinless direct radiator [love it when you said that] and I feel your right about most fullranges more like midranges but exceptions do exist and fe206esr is one on them.And happy new year to u 2
.
nt
Actually the Madisound Fostex BK-16 kit is a pretty good bargain. The price is a bit higher because of the two alnico supertweeters included. You can add these later, leave them off or replace with the much cheaper FT-17H tweeter. The cabinet kits and FF165K drivers alone would run about $320 for a pair.The advantage is that you can use the higher-efficiency driver and get 95db rather than the 90db or so likely from a ported-box type system that you are likely to make otherwise. The horn probably goes down to about 80hz or so (of course they'll claim better) and you can add your subwoofer below that.
If that all sounds a little too simple and easy, I'd consider Gordon Rankin's "Wall of Sound" type project. That'll keep you busy.
They sound really, really good.I bought a pair without tweeters to use for my rears
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