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In Reply to: Re: Earl Geddes raving about constant directivity? Say it isn't so... posted by eso on January 31, 2006 at 22:28:14:
Are you saying that you don't believe that CD is a desirable thing?Or are you just taking a contrarian and argumentative position.
Duke is being quite polite and reasonable here so why attack him just because we agree on this point?
Earl Geddes
Follow Ups:
I think it can be a very good thing in given situations, and insignificant in others. I do not view it as a panacea for everyone's audio playback woes.I get the distinct impression that you, Earl, do view CD as a panacea and seem very quick to dismiss anything that does not adhere to your views. It is not remarkable that you feel the area you have been working in for some time is the most important area to consider: maintianing the necessary dilligence and focus requires a certain degree of myopia.
Anyone that has paid any attention to this board for the last year has a fair idea as to the following:
1. Earl feels he has created what is "Aguably the best speaker in the world"2. Earl is writting a new book includes material on Oblate Spheriodal waveguide design
3. Duke is/has tried to sell Earl's speakers and likes them.
4. Earl is quick to try to dismiss any design that does not coincide with his beliefs.
These things being the case, starting a thread titled "Online evidence backing controlled directivity speakers" with a link to Earl's website boarders on shillery and is a valuable as a chior member extolling the virtues of the choir director.
This thread would mean to me if it were to include some information from additional sources, not just a regurgitation of the usual sycophantic banter.
eso
Hi eso,Sometimes it's not easy to discern whether I should make my industry affilitations known on a routine basis or not. Too much disclosure and it's an ad; too little and it's shilling. So I mention it sometimes but not all the time.
I don't think my post violates any of this site's industry member rules. I neither make nor sell Earl's free book. The information I was posting about supports a design approach that I believe strongly in and have for almost eighteen years. In fact, I sell three different brands that are approximately constant directivity over a large portion of the spectrum - one planar, one direct radiator, and one with an oblate spheroid waveguide. As an amateur speaker builder (I don't think my one commercial effort qualifies me as a pro), which many here are, Earl's book has some very useful information.
Would you have felt the same way if I was Bruce Edgar's dealer posting about exciting new information in a book he was writing?
You might consider taking a look at figure 4-6 and 4-10 cited in my original post, just in case it isn't the "usual sychophantic banter". And if it is incorrect or redundant then let's talk about that. I know you have a wealth of experience and opinion and insight to share, as I've seen it many times.
Cheers,
Duke
Duke, thanks for posting.My post above said this was "Bordering on Shillery" and I think you know what I was saying.
I've been avoiding making many statements about either Edgarhorn or Cogent lately in efforts to hopefully avoid appearing to be marketing on their behalf.
When I first saw this thread, I actually hoped there would be some new information and sources. Face it, a continuing string of similar threads just becomes lip service. And then Pooge comes along with the typical sycophantic banter.
Over in the Vinyl Asylum where I spend more time lately, if someone asks a question that has been talked as much as this topic several people will tell them to search the archives and leave it at that.
eso
Thanks, eso.My post was mainly about graphics that allow a visual comparison between the on-axis and power responses of two different loudspeaker systems, and the data supports the argument for controlled directivity. I have never seen this sort of data posted or printed anywhere before, so to me it was new information.
May I ask what would have been an acceptable way for me to post that I'd found something interesting in Earl's new chapter? If there's a way for me to do so without giving offense, please let me know. I really don't enjoy my time in the hot-seat!
Peace dude,
Duke
Duke, it is a gray area and I don't know what to tell you. As a dealer that sells Earl's speakers genereating interest in his research will likely spin-off some percentage of interest in his his products as well.I also see that yours is a genuine enthusiasm for this work and this feild in general, so such discussion also just the exchange of information between interested parties.
WRT this thread, had it been titled "New Chapter to Earl's book is Now up" or something to that effect I would not have thought much of it. I really was expecting some information from a NEW source from the title. Hey, I'm just a pedantic ass...
The hot seat sucks, and I've been put there for being vocal about my preferences before too: mostly by Wayne Parham and Magnetar. I'm sure you've seen a couple of those firestorms.
eso
1) I do discount any speaker that does not have near CD or controlled directivity as I see this as a minimum for qulity sound reproduction. Its not eveything so it can't be a panacea. But it necessary but not sufficient condition.2) I doubt that the book will specifically mention Oblate Spheriodal waveguides as this concept is too complex for the layman. I certainly will discuss how wvaeguides differ from horns and how virtually everyone today is moving in the direction of waveguides and away from the older classical diffraction approaches. At the very least the OS waveguide has not even been mentioned in the first 100 pages of the book. You are welcome, indeed invited,to write your own book with your views in it.
3) Whats your problem with Duke? Because he and I get along and agree with each other you reject that person.
4) A recent post of mine proves the falicy of this statement - see my discussion of the Labs per Dukes question. And at any rate, after spending a lifetime designing loudspeakers I am not supposed to support and expound on what I have found works best - just because you don't agree.
I simply fail to understand what the problem is between you and me. I am always polite and respectful and you return with rude and acusatory.
And further, I think that you make your opinions here equally know, but I don't attack them. You take every oportunity to expound on your system even more than I do I would guess. I try and stay factual to principles and not specific to my designs, albeit my design do follow my principles.
A little politness and respect and I am sure that you and I could get along.
Earl Geddes
The off axis response looks like the on axis response. Result? Near field frequency response looks like the far field. What does that mean to you? The mids and highs in the back of the room sound as balanced as the front. And you can equalize it flat in the back of the room and the people in front of them do not hear a massively boosted high frequency response. But the compression driver response rolls at near 3k or wherever the mass corner of the driver is.Take an 8" full range, 4' away difectly on axis it sounds pretty flat to 5k. Back to 10' away you start losing mids and especially highs, or even get off axis and there is no high end. A cd horn prevents this.
And you can match directivity at the crossover point. Think jbl 4430.
Myself i see the stepped flare (usually straight sided) as creating reflections. Great for pa or live music but not perfect for home use as you hear "is that a duet or a solo." Highly reverbed music sounds even better. JUst not for me. Now if I use the open cell foam? I'd like to try and listen to it. I may like it.
I think that you mean direct field and reverberant field and not near field and far field. These terms are often confused and I think that you have done that.The wall steps in horns cause reflections, true, but its mostly difraction that results and is so offensive.
Earl Geddes
hi
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