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For those interested (see thread below) the latest issue of HI-Fi News (March 2017) reviews the SA-10 player. It gets a very positive hearing. In their (somewhat inexplicable*) scoring system it attains 89% which, from memory, is amongst the highest scores that I have seen for any product. Their lab report also shows some pretty impeccable numbers.
5999 gbp (including VAT @20%) over here which is expensive but not unreasonable given the price of alternatives in this market sector.
* Inexplicable and redundant if you actually read the accompanying article. Anyway the score is not absolute I understand but is with reference to the product's performance in its price class. So a considerably more expensive product of a similar type may score less (say 87%) but still be better in absolute terms. Over the years I just take it that anything scoring over 80% is a good product and nearly 90% means a very good product indeed.
Just to let you know that my SA-10S1 has arrived. It is still in its box as of now but with luck there will be a chance to install it during the week. Will post my first impressions soonest. Is this the final demise of my SA7-S1? If so there may be one for sale fairly soon... or not!
It will take a while to run in obviously but will post first impressions of general character of the sound asap. Definitive comparison with SA7 will take longer.
Initially will concentrate on disc player SA and RB before moving on to the DAC linked to a MacBook Pro running J River Media Suite. Downloads from Native DSD.
I will be very suprised if the SA-10 SQ will be much of an improvement over the SA-7 but you never know.
I read the review in HiFi News. More musical numbers cited would have been helpful.
Yes just the personal opinion of the reviewer with strange music, long discovered you can never believe any review these days.
Anyone else seen or heard this player?
Being a SACD fan , Marantz SA-10si is STEREO only , I shall not be wasting my time & money. More interested in trying out the new Sony UBP-X800 universal player.
"Being a SACD fan , Marantz SA-10si is STEREO only , I shall not be wasting my time & money."
Your comment, Disbeliever, makes no sense to me at all. Most SACDs produced and sold exist for hi-res stereo playback. Having the capability to play multi-channel is cool and a nice feature, but let's face it: MC SACD is a niche within a niche within a niche.
Being a SACD fan, it comes as no surprise to me that the Marantz SA-10 is STEREO only - just like almost all of the other hi-end Marantz players. What next - you want Ferrari to make their sport cars with 5 doors?
Felixer Industry Professional ? You do not seem to know that SACD sounds best in surround sound ,mch format, so again I would not waste my time or money with the Marantz SA-10 Si. Furthermore I would not buy any 2 door car. Problem with mch sound is that the idiotic so-called professionals insist that there should be five floorstanding same size speakers with the rear volume same as the front ones. No wonder that audiophiles are put off. This is what Ken Ishiwata demonstrated at a show I went to a few years ago. When I told him the sound was unacceptable, he blamed the speakers, then the room acoustics ,not the absurd setup also with unnecessary sub-woofers and too much sound emanating from the rear. I also told KI many years ago that his I bit Dac was poor sounding lacked bass etc. he did later revert to 16 bit. however I did not like the SA7-S1.
I prefer 2-channel SACD.
fantja Then the Marantz SA-10 si is a good choice for you, what is stopping you from buying one, price ? you can not take it with you.
A proper demo- any dealer/retailer suggestions?
There are dealers demonstrating in the UK but I will not be wasting my time or money. Surely there are Marantz dealers in the US giving demos.
a review is forthcoming by Frank I.
I shall be more interested to learn from Hired Fox especially if the SA-10 is much better than the SA7-S1 which should not be too dificult, I expect it will be for CD but for SACD ? both of course are totally useless for me as I much prefer mch SACD which is considerably superior to STEREO, most SACDs include 5.0 surround sound.
Disbeliever, you must find it very limiting only listening to multichannel recordings. I mean, if there are, --- and let us be kind, say 300 such recordings --- and a person generously likes say 20% of performances/artists, and say 20% of recordings, you would be down to a selection of 12 discs you would really like. Not much.
You could have a really hi-res SACD player for the thousands of other hi-rez stereo SACDs out there (and millions of CDs), and keep a cheap old Sony Playstation for your multi-channel fix, along with that curio of a Laservision player.
All except one of my many SACDs are mch and as for CD I get excellent sound from my Str-Da5400ES AVR ( UK version with very low jitter HATS) & DA 5400ES SACD/CD player, I seem to be the only one on this forum with this excellent combo. I have never owned a playstation or Laservision player. Having owned and sold the obese stereo only Marantz SA7-S1 I cerainly would never consider buying the SA-10si.
Sure hope so- Disbeliever.
Any of you guys get a demo on this spinner?
So true- Disbeliever.
keep me posted.
So true- there used to be a real "art" in writing for the Audio Press.
I look forward to any review from you guys.
Congratulations on your new SACD player.
Would love to hear from you on this one. Would you be able to use this as a DAC? A mini review will be helpful to this community.
try & describe the difference between SA7 & SA10
Only the February issue of HFN is in the shops at the moment. Do you have special access?
The HFN scoring system is absolute codswallop and worst than useless as an aid for potential buyers.
SQ is SQ, how close the sound approaches the real thing (apologies to quad), it has nothing to do with "best in class". Sure there will be a best in each class but the best in any class will still have a SQ relative to reality. There are not different criteria for each class.... and, and what about the influence of the all he connected bits and bobs? The best sounding SACD player (highest SQ) could come from any class, depending on the system set-up. The cost must equal quality notion is crackpot!
HF I agree with you ,but you should send your complaint re HFN scoring nonsense to Paul Miller, . Just read the so-called Musical Magic review of the SA-10 ,I can not understand why Marantz
still require 3 filters user adjustable when only one is required for best sound, for SACD it would appear this new expensive player will be no better than the Sony XA5400ES as it can not play mch where SACD sounds best, As already posted it will probably sound better for Red Book CD, I will have a listen for myself but doubt if I will be buying one. I find the music used in the review by Andrew Everard to put it mildly very strange, try buying any of the discs and see the result.
any spinner only requires (1) filter. Esoteric players uses multiple filters as well. Maybe there is some kind of competition between the (2) companies on upper tier CD/SACD players?
" Only the February issue of HFN is in the shops at the moment. Do you have special access?"
Yes, but only to the extent that I am a subscriber ( print and digital) and if Royal Mail is on its toes.
Yep, that scoring system is pretty impenetrable and, as I have said, just reading the copy makes it redundant. Of course a magazine editor will tell you that some kind of rating system attracts readers who have neither the inclination nor knowledge to read the whole piece.
The cost and quality aspect of the scoring apparently works like this ( as far as I have been able to glean from Paul Miller's explanation). Let's say that a component costs 750 gbp. The reviewer imagines what capabilities such a component at that price would have to exhibit in order to score 100% (in the light of their expertise and experience of similar products). Then he rates the component under review in relation to that concept e.g. this scores 85% of that ideal. So it isn't cost = quality nor is it an absolute measure but more a kind of the best available at that price rating. So an integrated amp from, say, Musical Fidelity costing 1700 gbp may score 83%. Another integrated amp from ,say, Luxman at 7000 gbp may score 85%. But that does't mean that the Luxman is only a negligible 2 points better than the MF which could otherwise be purchased as a cheaper substitute for the Luxman ( see the April 2016 edition for these two amps).
Of course I could have got it all mixed up ( but don't think so). However it is pretty much a rubbish idea to begin with and I think that PM inhertited it from the IMO less than satisfactory editor that preceded him. So there it is (so far as I understand). It could and should be dispensed with but I bow to the superior commercial instinct of the publisher and editor. NB: most other audio magazines do something along the same lines with stars out of five etc. Hurrah for Stereophile - you actually have to read it!
"However it is pretty much a rubbish idea to begin with and I think that PM inhertited it from the IMO less than satisfactory editor that preceded him."
He got it from Martin Colloms IIRC. Back in the 80s Martin did most of the technical reviews for HFNRR and he introduced that scoring system. I agree it is stupid because you can't really gauge the progress made over time! It was his way of introducing a new reference and he even rescaled the values for old reviews if he referenced them in the context of the new reviews!
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
There have been several unsatisfactory editors of HFN & RR since John Crabbe.
Frank I- has a review forthcoming soon.
Frank- is your review posted?
we need more reviews of this spinner!
Sadly, Andrew Everard's review of the SA-10S1 is brief and superficial, and disappoints as a result offering little useful guidance to experienced listeners. It's OK being first in line if you take full advantage of the head start that you have been given over your competitors by the supplier but this review just isn't good enough for a machine that has been years in development and boasts the long neglected single bit processing principles from end-to end.
Odd too that KK wasn't allocated the review, if anybody knows Marantz spinners Ken does and he would have offered far more insight.
Black mark Andrew, wonder who gets to have it next?
Thanks! for sharing- hiredfox
it is all too common w/ the Audio press currently. I can remember a time when a review was informative and well-written.
That was a long long time ago, there are no rewiewers today in UK who can match the very high calibre & professionalism
of Gordon J King, John Borwick Geoffrey Horn You could believe every word , without question, no political agenda .
What about Martin Colloms? I was always impressed by his reviews in the past, which struck me as thoughtful, thorough, and honest, many years ago. I bought my old Van den Hul MC One based partly on his review many years ago. (Now I use a Van den Hul Frog.)
I think he is still writing, no?
He is and has his own independent mag "Hi Fi Critic" although far too expensive to buy but that's the price you have to pay for having no advertisers and hopefully to not be their pockets so to speak.
I hope he does get his hands on the SA-10S1 in the UK before it goes too far around the hack block!
Yes he is still writing has his own audio magazine subscription only Hi-Fi Critic, has a crazy system for rating components, he is an engineer but I much prefer the reviewers from long ago that I mentioned Gordon J.King (The Audio Handbook)
John Borwick, Geoffrey Horn.
He does have golden ears which helps enormously in assessments. At least his crackpot scoring system puts everything on one scale so you can get an idea of relative performance. On the downside he tends to be hooked on his PRT parameter, "forgetting" that it is the music that matters and controls these things.
Martin Colloms does a pretty good job- reviewing.
Right On! Disbeliever-
I have read some of those guys' writings. Very professional indeed.
Thanks! for sharing- PAR
are you going to demo this player?
No, I am in a somewhat different place for my digital replay requirements.
I may get to hear it at the Munich show in May but I wouldn't count that as a serious audition. That is especially as Marantz tend to have a huge display area at the show which isn't conducive to anything but very casual listening.
if/when you get a demo- post your listening thoughts and impressions here.
I will but don't get your hopes up. At that price and expecting that the number of pieces destined for the UK can be counted on one hand I expect that it is only likely to be available on special order to customers who have already made up their mind.
I had an experience of buying the top of range Marantz CD player twenty years ago when I bought the CD-7 ( not available in the USA). I just had to grit my teeth and spend the money. Receiving the player was fun as Marantz actually sent a Japanese engineer to oversee my installation! Now that was what I call service ( albeit not under the current ownership).
So if I get what will be no more than a sniff of it at Munich I will report ( I am thinking of posting a Munich Show report anyway if I can find a way of linking to photos with captions bearing in mind that I can't do HTML markup).
Scores are one thing, but understanding the taste of the reviewers in relation to your own is important. There is no substitute for a home audition, which is possible in UK over a weekend (and return).
I have been disappointed by high scoring and Stereophile Class A components.
Any chances the SA-10 using AK4137 to upsample everything to DSD 256 ?
According to the review the SA-10 upsamples all inputs to DSD 256. However whether or not it uses the device that you cite to do it is not revealed.
Thanks for that. I'll pop out and buy a copy.
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