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In Reply to: RE:Comparison posted by ahendler on April 15, 2016 at 11:18:13
My initial impression is the same as yours, until I realised the levels are lower.
When I turned it up, that's when it hits me...
Gus Skinas confirmed as much.
Follow Ups:
Yes I did notice the lower level. I listened a second time at a much higher level and it was better but I still like the original cd better
Alan
Sadly, - my previous SACD is damaged, - so i didn't perform a back to back comparison.
I liked that he backed off the reverb on the vocals. I was expecting this to be muddy, but it wasn't. However, - it did seem more "closed in" sounding and seemed a lot more laid back. The instruments rang very true, and sounded "hi-rez" But I seem to remember the original SACD sounding more dramatic, and more dynamic between instruments, as each "player" instrument stepped up out of the mix and took focus in the song. The songs sound more cohesive with less "wow" popping out with individual instruments.
This was most noticeable on "too Rich for.." which sounded far less dramatic, and more "blended" I really did not like it. Especially the ending part with the drums.....
Finally, - after reading the liner notes, - it didn't seem to clear to me that he remixed directly to DSD from the original multitrack analog tape. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough, but it almost seems like he wrote that he remixed/re-mastered from the 5.1 multi-channel DSD file.. ???? I don't want to argue the point again, - so it's all good, - I'm wrong....
The final result is much different. It seems as though he wanted to take away the "wow" of the original disc, in favor of a "safer" more traditional approach. He specifically mentioned the reverb: bringing out a more realistic recording of the actual plated room. Was that reverb boosted in the recording studio during the analog rough track mixdown? Or, was it emphasized with EQ when it was mastered to DSD?
IMO, - it's all great music, and PBs best album. Even though I like it less so far, (and I see both sides of the changes) I'm sure that I'll be enjoying listening to it, and glad I bought it...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I have posted about this before but to clarify a few points. The original multitrack done in Chicago is a digital tape done on an Otari digital multitrack tape recorder. It was then mixed down to a 2 track PCM digital master and then mastered to a final digital master that produced the original CDS. For this new CD they made a digital file copy of the original digital multitrack and took it to Capital records in California. This multitrack was mixed using the Capital Neve council and Capitals live echo chambers producing a new PCM digital master. This PCM 2 track was then converted straight to a 2 track DSD master along with a new surround mix. In the transfer to DSD nothing was done to change the PCM 2 track. The DSD master is the source of the new SACD. I agree with you I like the original better, but the SACD is interesting. It has to be played louder to get its full impact
Also the same engineer who did the original did the new SACD
Alan
Fascinating to me....
After many years of being in the studio, I forget how far things have moved on since I've been out....
As I re-read his liner notes, and your corresponding explanation, I am still curious how this was mixed to the "analog domain" Based on what both of you are saying, I picture them using mics in a plated reverb room recording to 2 track analog tape, - then transferred again to digital? Or are the "analog chambers," really good analog effects boxes, sandwiched in?
If the latter, it makes me curious why he would say in the liner notes: "where the multi-track was mixed in the analog domain and the analog chambers."
It's pretty clear that they didn't mix multi-track digital down to 1/4" analog two channel. And by using the word "analog Chamber," - it makes it seem more than just a setting on an effects device, - (i.e. An actual plated room).
Sorry if this is annoying anyone, but it's pretty interesting stuff, - (to me).
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Possibly they took the digital multitrack files and decoded them to analog tape so they could keep everything in the analog domain. Maybe they then created an analog 2 track master and made a DSD master from it.
Alan
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