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After all the rave reviews on the Oppo 93 I had to try it for myself. UK magazine What Hi-Fi ? gave the Oppo 93 only 4 stars out of 5 they received a lot of flack. However I find that they are right. My test is with HDMI only, I find the Oppo, slightly strident harsh and fatiguing to listen to, this is with SACD,RB CD & Blu-Ray. As far as Blu-Ray video is concerned there is virtually no difference on my Samsung 7000 55" TV although I still prefer the Sony,but the sound on the Oppo with 2L Blu-Ray audio discs is strident I just want to turn it off. on the Sony BDP S1000ES player it is wonderful. Obviously the Oppo is very much cheaper and is useful as a universal player but if you want the best sound forget it.
Edits: 04/11/12Follow Ups:
I have a BDP-95, but the features are supposed to be similar. There is a menu setting that allows the SACD output to be converted to PCM before going out the HDMI (or remain in the DSD domain) or to the D/A converters on board for those of us who listen to analog outs.
I have not seen any comments comparing these two settings, but I haven't read everything out there.... However, I've found that the PCM setting results in an edgier presentation, a little brighter, more forward, more "digital". I can see why some folks wouldn't be pleased with the PCM setting.
It might be possible that a person could be listening to the PCM conversion mode and not know it. It could account for the different judgments.
I don't believe that anything Stereophile lists as A+ is anywhere near "dog poo" or "kitty poo". You might like them or not, but the BDP-93 and BDP-95 are serious pieces of equipment that for folks like me are a major purchasing decision. And that 30-day free trial makes it a safe move.
I LOVE my Oppo BDP-93. Great sounds & picture and it play every shiny disc format I have (RBCD, HDCD, DVD-Audio & SACD) - Can't be beat at this price.
Happy listening...
-B-
A friend owns a Sony 5400 and an Oppo 93, both of which are used exclusively via HDMI. He, I and several others heard no significant difference in his system or mine. The listeners were all frequent concert goers with about 50 years each as audiophiles and serious listeners. We got the same result using a Oppo 83 via HDMI. The systems are well set up, primarily Mch music systems in the $40-$50k MSRP range.
The main source material we compared was Mch classical SACDs, bitstreaming the DSD into an Integra 80.1 or 80.2 prepro, each of which was Audyssey Pro calibrated, one with MultEQ XT, the other with the superior XT/32. We did not try RBCD.
Aside from the fact that you are on record over and over as being a Sony fan boy and Oppo hater, there are a host of possible explanations why your results would differ from ours, HATS on the Sony being one (I assume you still use that). But, there are others like bitstreaming DSD, which I do not think your AVR supports; it is not on the spec sheet. Bitstreaming sounds noticeably better to us than the Oppo's DSD-PCM conversion at 88k. There are a host of other possible reasons, including the AVR's handling of the HDMI jitter spectra from the different players, or possibly your system is just too bright in the first place.
In any case, based on what I have heard myself, I have no plans whatever to acquire a Sony 5400 player. But, by all means, listen to and enjoy what you like best!
You have not heard my system so you are in no position to make an absolute. . As far as listening experience is concerned I feel I can equal anyones maybe even more so . I have had the opporunity for many years with BBC engineers in the studio to compare Live v recorded sound. I have spent a lifetime in the Hi-Fi Industry ,At 16 years of age I was assembling my own brand of radiograms. One of my friends is a loudspeaker designer and electronics expert he agrees with me that it is no contest the Oppo 93 against the XA5400ES but of course I have the advantage of the matching Sony DA5400ES receiver with HATS, Furthermore
2L BD audio discs sound far superior on the Sony S1000ES than they do on the Oppo which I can not listen to at all., I also prefer the video picture on the Sony. It is quite absurd of you to infer my system is just to bright in the first place. As you well know I have no interest in the gimmicky Audyssey. IMO the Oppo is very much overated when used with HDMI, its price says it all. What HiFi?are also not inmpressed with the sound of the Oppo 93 £315 in US but a rip-off £499 in the UK.
Dude....
Is Sony paying you many, many, pounds?
Seriously, - you can't sell this bridge. It's like Metallica, being a tool for the industry that is stealing their money....
C'mon.
Yes, the Oppo is dog-poo. But the Sony is kitty-poo.
Meitner, APL, Audio Aero, Lindeman, Sim Audio, Ayre, Esoteric, on their very worst days, broken, and half working sound 50% better than any wet dream, tax-write-off, that Sony will ever think of building...
Sheesh...
Go over to a friend's and listen to some good gear, gain some perspective.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Despite being well able to afford any piece of Hi-Fi gear that I know of I would not waste my own money on the brands you mention , paying for over engineered casework. You can not change the laws of physics, the magazines have to support these rip-off merchants to stay in business. I would also add the following names to your list Chord, dCs, Meridian Naim, etc.
Edits: 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/13/12
.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
If you want to talk mods, I bet my Sony 5400 as modified by Allen Wright is at least as good as your APL modified Denon. :)
Edits: 04/12/12
the point.....
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Allen Wright expensive analogue mods completely irrelevant to this thread, which is concerned only with best performance via HDMI
Edits: 04/13/12 04/13/12
.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Sheesh.
I fully understand the obvious, which is that I have not heard your system, nor you either of the two in which we did our comparisons. Did I suggest that our group's findings were the absolute? I fail to see where I did. No, that was you making the absolute statements, as if you are god's true gift to the audio/video world, which you have proven over and over in numerous forums you are not. That is about as absolute a statement as I can make on the subject. On the other hand, the listening findings I reported are all relative to the context of the systems, rooms and listeners involved, which is why I provided that context.
There are several other tangents among the responses here which are off topic to the central issue you brought up. One is that you and I are not talking about player analog output, as some here would like to redirect the dialog. That is a totally different and unrelated matter. We are only talking HDMI. I really do not give a hoot about the Oppo 95, nor do you.
On to the picture quality tangent. That is in the eye of the beholder, as sound quality is in the ear of the listener. But, I have read quite a large number of player reviews, and seen a number of players myself. The virtually universal opinion of true experts - that leaves you and me out - is that are no, not even tiny, video differences among players on Blu-ray, from the cheapest to the most expensive. Player differences on video are confined to their upscaling of DVD material, where some players are much better than others. There is no player that is more of a universal benchmark in this regard among experts than the Oppo 93/95. No doubt, there are stand alone external processors that might be a smidgen better, but that depends on one's point of view. One person's smidgen might be another's Grand Canyon, especially if they already own the piece in question.
As always, there will be an infinite number of non-expert, often highly biased, opinions arrived at in uncontrolled ways among the masses of online posters for video, but especially for audio. That might include you and me. But, as always, to each his own. Enjoy whatever you are willing to pay for.
I agree with you. My nephew brought his Oppo 95 to my house and my Sony BDP-S5000ES was better with cd's and Blue Ray picture was better also on the Sony. I purchased the Denon DVD-A1 UDCI which I feel has a better picture and sound than even the Sony. I did, however buy a modded modright Oppo 95 and it sounds wonderful on two channel.
I also owned the obese Sony S5000 for a while but prefer the S1000ES blu-ray sound is superb on the latter. I only use HDMI prefering MCH but HDMI is still excellent for RBCD on a Sony Combo with D.L.L.
Even though I never heard the new S1000es, it is hard for me to believe that it is better than the S5000ES. You are going from 20 plus pound machine with a big power supply to a tiny 6.6 lb tiny power supply probably shitty class d.
I own the Sony BDP-S5000ES Blu-ray player and uses two channel analog playback.Here is what the BDP-S1000ES has the BDP-S5000ES does not have:
XMB® inspired media bar
Scene Search
Energy Star
4GB external memory (1GB, BDP-S5000ES)
Built-in wireless functionality (802.11N/G/B/A)
7.1 channel virtual headphone output
Digital Photo Playback (via USB)
Photo Streaming - Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA)Now here is what the BDP-S5000ES has the BDP-S1000ES does not have:
Isolated Audio Circuit Board and High Quality Parts
RS-232C & IR Input for Flexible Custom Installation
Rigid Beam Chassis & Dual Shield Construction
R-Core Transformer
High Quality 14-bit HD Video Processor
HD Reality Enhancer (8 to 14 bit)
Low-Vibration Enclosure
The analog audio circuit is mounted on a 7.1-channel isolated board
HD 24Hz to 60Hz conversion
Noise Reduction : FNR, BNR, MNR
Picture Parameter Adjustments : Contrast, Brightness, Color, Sharpness, HUE, Gamma, Playback Memory, Screen Saver
Analog-to-Digital Converter: 192 MHz/24 bit, Burr-Brown PCM1796Both have HD Reality Enhancer but the BDP-S5000ES is superior since it goes from 8 to 14 bit while the BDP-S1000ES goes only from 8 to 12 bit.
The BDP-S5000ES weighs 22 lbs while the BDP-S1000ES weighs 6.6 lbs!
In sum the BDP-S5000ES is better built, has a superior HD video processor and analog section. The BDP-S1000ES has a new menu, wifi support, more external memory, headphone output and DLNA.
Edits: 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12 04/18/12
Having owned the obese BDP-S5000ES although very good they were kocked out at half price because they can not sell them. I also bought the BDP-1000/760. I sold the former and am very happy with the latter IMO far better than the overated Oppo 93EU . Have just tried a later BDP- 780 EISA award winner and the 760 is a heavier build with better picture & sound. I have no interest in 3D. JOHAN V THIS THREAD IS ONLY CONCERNED WITH HDMI PERFORMANCE NOT ANALOGUE.
Edits: 04/18/12 04/19/12 04/19/12
The German Area DVD website tested the Sony BDP-S780 player and you can see also inside pictures. The power supply board is from Mitsumi Electric Co. and uses a cheap pertinax PCB (hard paper) with bad thermal properties. Even the power supply cord is low cost and no IEC connector is used. Sorry but this Sony player is no match for the BDP-S5000ES high-end player.
Edits: 04/19/12
??? I have never said the 780 was a match for the S5000ES and it is not a match for the better built 760.
Edits: 04/19/12 04/19/12
Sorry but this makes no sense Disbeliever. Have you looked inside the Sony BDP-S760? Seems to me the same built quality as I mentioned before. Do you see a heavy duty transformer? Good audio and video starts with a good power supply. Although the BDP-S760 has most of the features of the BDP-S5000ES it has not the same build quality and reliability as the latter. So long as this thing lasts a couple of years most people will be happy with it. Sadly this stuff is all disposable.
Edits: 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12
I have not looked inside my 760 but it is a much better & heavier build than the 780 most importantly the performance both sound & video via HDMI is superior which is all that concerns me. I do not understand how the rubbish build 780 got an EISA award. 780 quickly replaced by 790 but have not seen it.It seems when they add more features the build quality gets reduced to keep price down or improve margins. The 760 has most of the features of the S5000 ES, I prefer the 760 picture to both the 780 & the Oppo 93 EU and as for BD sound there is no contest the 760 is much better via HDMI.
Edits: 04/19/12 04/19/12 04/19/12
The Sony BDP-S790 (5.0 lbs) is significantly lighter in weight than the S780 and how would that affect SQ, PQ and overall reliability? So long as this thing lasts a couple of years most people will be happy with it. Sadly this stuff is all disposable.
Edits: 04/19/12 04/19/12
Thanks for the Polish Link it would appear in performance via HDMI there is very little difference between the 760 & 5000ES if any as I have experienced for myself. Both have Sony Super Bit Mapping and 14 bit resolution. the 760 apparently will not provide 7.1 only 5.1 big deal. The S5000ES will obviously be better for you as a two channel only analogue listener.
Edits: 04/19/12
HDTVPolska tested also the Sony BDP-S5000ES Blu-ray player. The Sony BD player has Burr-Brown PCM1796 DA converters for the analog outputs (7.1 channel & 2 channel).
Edits: 04/19/12
Sony XA5400ES player is also equipped with a 'universal' DSD1796 DAC from Burr Brown
Why not at least compare apples to apples? Like the early 83 vs. the 83SE, the model with which Oppo pays particular attention to audio (as opposed to video) is the 95.
Oppo support tell me that via HDMI the performance of the 93 & 95 is exactly the same. I did say in my first post that I was using HDMI so the audio from the 95 via HDMI will be just as bad as the 93. However many simply do not notice it. The 93 has also received rave reviews although more for the 95.
Edits: 04/12/12 04/12/12 04/12/12
What device are you feeding the Oppo's HDMI output into? This device will obviously completely determine the SQ limit...
If you are using a typical consumer (HDMI input) pre-pro/AVR then I have to agree with you, at best the SQ is tolerable for a while with good recordings. e.g. I find CDs unlistenable. SACD/DVD-A/BD are generally fine though, but not nearly as good as with a decent pre-pro.
This is true of all HDMI output audio devices that are not using advanced clocking sync stuff i.e. almost all aren't, one reason HDMI isn't taken seriously for audio yet.
Sony has a jiggered HDMI output color palette, not accurate IOW. As far as I know all their BDPs back to the very first (PS3) have this. Oppo does not, never has. I'm not saying you'll see this on an uncalibrated display though, but many/most people can.
The Oppo 93 via HDMI is IMO a completely overated product for sound quality, pianos do not sound natural and soprano voice is slightly piecing & shrill unlistenable for me (Excellent sound with XA5400ES & excellent picture with S1000ES). I am using 93 into a Sony DA5400ES AV receiver UK version (EISA award winner best component 2008/9) but mainly as a pre-pro, with excellent test measurements the Sony amplifiers only used for centre and rear speakers, front speakers are fed by a very high quality stereo amplifier.As you must know Sony use advanced clocking sync, & HATS for lowest jitter via HDMI the High End is scared stiff of HDMI because of low cost and excellent results. In the UK Oppo are operating illegally by collusion , fixing prices with a number of retailers and this is being investigated by OFT & Trading standards.The Oppo retailer is giving me a full refund. Best feature of Oppo is its excellent packaging.
Edits: 04/11/12 04/11/12 04/11/12 04/11/12 04/11/12 04/12/12
Sorry if I gave the wrong idea, I was thinking of the more consumerish Sony BDPs (like the 760 e.g) not the 5400, for music via HDMI.
I myself need a MUCH better HDMI pre-pro before I can seriously consider listening to music via HDMI. I've been waffling for years on that one... I have very little mch music (besides the audiophile stuff, which I don't really listen to, just for testing) so the S/PDIF generally does OK for now with my "analog" system.
However, as far as BD video (not to mention DVD where there's little contest) you should really look into what Sony does with their video output. This is not an opinion, this is what they actually do. You absolutely cannot "self-calibrate" a display using any Sony BDP. To put it as simply as I can, the Sonys "crush" white and black levels. It's both noticeable and measurable.
Separate pre-pros are very much overpriced compared to a pre-pro found in receivers which give excellent results but are dismissed by so-called experts who never bother to try them. Unfortunately Sony are now going down the tubes and as far as I am aware there will be no more. Bloomberg yesterday Sony to tune out of TV's. I am far more interested in HDMI BD audio only sound and of course mch SACD than video which is satisfactory on most BD players.. So whilst the Oppo gives a good picture so do far more cheaper BD players, I find 2L disc BD only sound on the Oppo 93 unlistenable when fed into my Sony DA5400ES receiver compared to sound from the Sony S1000ES probably a better match. What Hi-Fi ? only magazine I know of that is truthful about the Oppo 93 poor sound. To all who appear to be so enthralled with their 93's so be it, happy viewing & listening but I expect lots more flak because I have been critical of their pride & joy.
Edits: 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/13/12 04/14/12 04/14/12
Disbelievers says that he is using a cheap HDMI cable and maybe he is also using cheap power cords for his gear. Maybe he is forgotten that the better the audio equipment, the more it reveals. I am using an Audioquest HDMI-3 white pvc cable for my Sony 46" LCD TV and Sony BDP-S5000ES Blu-ray player. Of course always analog playback using an Audioquest Panther interconnect with 72V DBS and power cords with Furutech's new rhodium-plated Fl-E38 Schuko connectors and 3-layer gold-plated (Cryo) Wattgate 350i IEC connectors. The power cables are HanzeHifi Blue with double shielding. Line Conditioner is Isotek Orion 6-ways. Good audio and video starts with a good power supply.
Edits: 04/12/12
"Maybe he is forgotten that the better the audio equipment, the more it reveals."
By better I hope you don't mean more expensive. "Better" is a rather loaded word to attach to audio performance as what's better for one is not for another. Granted it's less vague than some of the nebulous words used by audio reviewers. "Cheap" is another hot word, as one person's cheap is another..well you get the idea. I've installed some $6 Volex powercords in some systems that had more synergy than some well-reviewed audiophile Good Housekeeping seal of approval powercords priced between $109 to $595 dollars higher.
I was at an Audio show in Utrecht and at the Furutech stand they had several power cords with the same power cable but with different Schuko connectors and ICE connectors. The better, which also means more expensive, the connectors the sound quality of the power cords improved. I have this experience when I upgraded my power cords with the Furutech's new rhodium-plated Fl-E38 Schuko connector. For your information, I have build my own power cords.
Edits: 04/18/12 04/18/12
My comments are maybe irrelevant as I only compared the Oppo 93 with the Sony 5400 VSE and I am afraid the Oppo sounds grey in comparison.
Not in the same league for sure but then the pricing is also in a different league. This was using the same interconnects but not the same power cord.
Hi Johan , I am using the high speed 1.4 HDMI cable supplied with the Oppo which gives exactly the same result as from my Lydl HDMI High Speed I.4 £5.99 cable. Incidently I used to have the obese Sony BDP-S5000ES Blu-Ray player but got rid of it in favour of very similar technology in the Sony BDP-760 sold in the US as S1000ES. I use heavy duty mains cable not rip-off priced ones that you favour. Happy Listening & viewing.
Currently I am using Furutech's new rhodium-plated Fl-E38 Schuko connectors and 3-layer gold-plated (Cryo) Wattgate 350i IEC connectors. HanzeHifi Blue power cord with pure copper, 99.99%, an insulation material with excellent dielectric properties and a double shield with a braided steel foil shielding. The double-shielded cables have the inner screen made of copper and the outer one realized by alloy-49 or steel-1010. The currents induced in the copper shields generate a magnetic field opposite to the one produced by the currents flowing in the inner conductors, thus reducing strongly the external magnetic field. The sound becomes detailed, refined, smooth and warmer. HF becomes more precise. TV Images are better, clearer with less distortion. Good audio and video starts with a good power supply.
Edits: 05/03/12 05/03/12
Furutech's new rhodium-plated Fl-E38 Schuko connector: €131
Wattgate 350i cryo 15A Audio Grade Female IEC: $88 (bought in the USA)
HanzeHifi Blue power cord: €50/mtr
Just to get back to the original thread, to the chagrin of most, I find the Oppo 93 EU very much overated via HDMI especially for BD sound . I still prefer Sony Super Bit mapping for both sound and picture. I was given a full refund by the Oppo retailer.
Edits: 05/07/12
How much does it all cost ?
Personal biases much? Surely your comments about OPPO should and will be discounted because of your continual dislike of the company no matter how good the component is.
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