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My Marantz SA-14 V2 player has provided me with many years of listening pleasure, but I'm thinking that it might be time to move on. I had always thought of the SA-7 as a logical successor, but it's no longer available, so I'm researching other makes and models. My short list includes the SA-11 (which might be more of a lateral move from the SA-14), the Esoteric X-05, and the Luxman D-05. Would anyone care to opine about these three candidates? Are there other players out there worthy of consideration?
Follow Ups:
When I get that "burning a hole in my pocket" feeling over component "upgrades" - I do my reality-check test: How much music could I buy with that money instead?
How much do you need?
Regards,
Geoff
My "more music please" need is never satisfied, thus I must pick and choose according to my budget with knowledge that one day soon enough most of my music media will be headed to the landfill and/or sold in second hand and charity shops. The upside is after I'm grub food, music downloads will likely be far and away the dominant percent of music sold which means less stuff in landfills.That's a positive upside.
I've had a Marantz SA-11S2 for 4+ years now. I have no desire to change. Prior to that I owned a Cary 306 player which was nearly as good as the Marantz but I liked the SA-11S2's richer presentation. If I were forced to change players, I would audition the newer Cary 303T. It has a tubed output stage which would probably enhance its sound over the original Cary 306. Good luck!
If you want to go for another Marantz & it is the "11" then make sure you get the SA-11S2 - it is like a mini SA-7. I had a SA-14 (not v2) and my SA-7 sounds nothing like the 14, so I supposed (yes, a big assumption since I have never listened to the v2) the 'mini-S7' SA-11S2 should be an improvement over the 14v2.
Of course there are many choices if you want something else.
Try the Denon A100 from music direct for 30 days..if they still have any left. You will love it:O)
dave_b
are u using unbalanced outputs(RCA) or balanced outputs(XLR) from the Marantz SA14 into your VAC pre-amps?
NT
The SA-14's balanced XLR output terminals were wired pin 3 hot instead of the usual pin 2. Going into the VAC pre-amp's balanced XLR inputs, which are wired pin 2 hot, the audio signal's absolute polarity will be inverted.So how do you compensate for this?
Correct absolute polarity will give you more visceral dynamics, more vivid soundstaging, better definition of image outline, and more realistic sense of musicality.
Edits: 03/13/12
no text
My previous preamp (a Sonic Frontiers Line 1) had a phase inversion switch on the remote control. In most cases, inverting phase didn't really make that much difference, in my experience. This may indict the acuity of my hearing, but whatever....
I realize that this does not really address the issue of absolute polarity. However, I suspect that in real-world situations, preserving phase integrity is probably not a top priority at the average recording session. Think of all the cables, the mike preamps, the mixing consoles, and on and (alas!) on. It is possible--even likely--that the average recording comes to us with the phase integrity compromised to one extent or another. I may be completely off base here, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
"....I realize that this does not really address the issue of absolute polarity. However, I suspect that in real-world situations, preserving phase integrity is probably not a top priority at the average recording session. Think of all the cables, the mike preamps, the mixing consoles, and on and (alas!) on. It is possible--even likely--that the average recording comes to us with the phase integrity compromised to one extent or another. I may be completely off base here, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it...."There are 2 separate, but interrelated issues at hand here.
I have a friend who was terrible unhappy with his system.
But he couldn't put a finger on it why it was so.
As it turned out, his accuphase cdp balanced out was wired pin 3 hot, going into pass amps.
Switching to unbalanced brought back imaging focus and better sense of dynamic impact into his system.
The sonic differences were marginal at best, but with RCA connection, everything just clicks.
It's a fine line, but my friend just knew it which side of the line he was in.There's another fella whom I communicated in an audio forum.
He is using marantz SACD player with polarity switch.
He just went ahead engaged the switch, thinking that it would help compensate for polarity inversion.
We discussed it at length, and he agreed to take a test
1. SA11S2 polarity switch engaged (180 degree polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin2 hot
2. SA11S2 polarity switch disengaged (0 degree no polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin3 hotHe had another set of identical balanced cable wired pin 3 hot at the player end.
He heard the difference straight away.
In this test, absolute polarity was the same in both cases, so why would he hear a difference?His own words were someing like "...Frankly when the phase invert switch was engaged, there was very little difference. Some have said that this switch is for recordings recorded out of phase and not change in polarity of the pins. That's why I had to change the polarity of the interconnects which did have a difference...."
i was the one edging him to change the pin configuration on the XLR connector at the player end, even though everyone else was saying that absolute polarity was the only problem and merely engaging the polarity switch was sufficient.
You see - it's all about maintaining the correct signal flow directionality.
despite the fact that his marantz already have a polarity switch to correct absolute polarity reversal, the bigger (and more audible) problem for him then was that the positive signal from player's XLR output pin3 was being transmitted down the negative signal carrying conductor of the interconnect and vice versa. this constitute a reversal of signal flow directionality on the balanced XLR interconnect cable between the SACD player and his pre-amp, which was audible to him, and was retified by the XLR terminal pin configuration change.
Edits: 03/15/12 03/15/12
When I owned my SA-11S2 I was able to invert the polarity via my ARC preamp. Failing the VAC having the same capability one can always swap the pos/neg speaker cables which would do the same thing.
There is also the lengthy debate on whether or not the recording itself has the "correct" polarity so inverting the polarity at the source, within the preamp or swapping speaker leads may not realize the optimal results on a recording by recording basis...
But you had reversed the signal flow directionality within your arc amps, by engaging its analog domain polarity switch, which is even worst.Even if you were to invert the absolute polarity digitally on the newer marantz SACD players, you'll still subjecting the XLR interconnect cable between the player and the pre-amp to reverse signal flow directionality.
People who had done the comparison below found that sound is different, even though polarity is the same in both cases.
1. SA11S2 polarity switch engaged (180 degree polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin2 hot
2. SA11S2 polarity switch disengaged (0 degree no polarity invert), player end of interconnwire hanged pin3 hotThat is because signal flow directionality is far, far more audible.
Edits: 03/13/12
That doesn't sound right.
Regards,
Geoff
"signal flow directionality"
What the hell is this? Never heard of this concept
Don't AC signals flow in both directions?
Also the absolute polarity on most multi miked recordings is a crap shoot anyway.
Alan
Believe it or not, you may want to at least consider the Oppo 95. Many people, including long-time audiophiles, are liking it (especially when modified). I'm trying one right now, after years with a very heavily modded Denon 3910. I don't have enough time on it to judge it "fairly", though. That is probably going to take a couple more weeks.
I have never understood why the big Japanese companies (Sony, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, Esoteric, Luxman) have always had such a mononpoly on SACD players.
Musical Fidelity came out with one years ago, (Arcam and Cary have also dipped a toe into SACD waters) but since then very, very few of the hi-fi specialist companies have bothered. This is in stark contrast to the current DAC-mania, where everyone who is anyone has a DAC.
I would love to hear what Conrad-Johnson, EAR, Audio Note, Unison Research, Copland, Rotel, Primare, Rogue Audio, Jolida or Rega (to name a few) could do with an SACD player.
I think the choices of SACD players are too limited and the Japan-inc players all sound more alike than not. An "upgrade" from one to another is more a side-ways step.
Interesting take on this issue. My theory: in order to design an SACD player, you need to have access to a suitable transport device. As you observed, this doesn't seem to deter the high-end Japanese companies, but it may inhibit some of the other companies. Just a theory.
Ayre has two SACD-capable machines in its product line-up: one is based on the Oppo transport, and I understand that the other one uses a Pioneer transport. One can only assume that Ayre has a plentiful supply of both mechanisms on hand to ensure proper support in the future. The other manufacturers that you've mentioned may not want to go down that road.
If its just a transport issue, they could buy someone else's (SACD) transport.
EMM Labs have used Philips and now Esoteric-TEAC transports. Marantz has used transports sourced from Pioneer. Oppo used to use Sony transports. I think they use Sanyo sourced transports now. Not sure where Arcam sources their (SACD) transport. It might be a Sony.
Perhaps the cost of OEM-SACD transports is prohibitive for small companies.
.
I wonder how (small) companies like Oppo, NAD, and Cambridge Audio are able to absorb the SACD licensing costs but other small companies cannot?
f
Regards,
Geoff
Please let us know which way you are going, if you can afford the Esoteric or the Luxman go for it. They are both well made machine.
After all the source is the most important component in the chain.
generally, you want "better" sound, of course. But what improvements, specifically, are you looking for? Why it ****might be time to move on***?
Perhaps the inverse would be, what do you see are the weaknesses of your current SACD player?
Have you considered improvements/changes in other places in your system/room that might also help or be more effective in bringing about improvements.
Robert C. Lang
My main goal, of course, is to get something nice and shiny.
Just kidding, of course. Your raise an excellent question. I've always liked the Marantz "house sound," which tends towards harmonic richness rather than laser-like clarity. Ideally, I would like to keep the warmth and richness while gaining a bit more clarity, if possible.
I have indeed considered other changes in my system, specifically swapping my Audioquest cables for Cardas. I already have an excellent listening room, and my amp/preamp combo (VAC) and speakers (Vandersteen Fives) are in no need of replacement.
Thanks again for your feedback, Mr. Lang. It helps to guide the decision-making process.
I purchased the Esoteric X-05 late last year. Previously I owned a modified Sony 777ES Sacd/CD
player. I found the X-05 made a huge difference and when I added the Esoteric Master Clock G-03X it brought my listening pleasure to still new heights.
Thanks for the response. The stereotype is that Esoteric equipment sounds dry and analytical; on the other hand, there are isolated voices saying that the X-05 is a happy exception to that rule. What has been your experience?
Hello DB, I have not had an opportunity to A/B various CD players to determine their character, strengths and shortcomings. Instead, I tend to depend mostly on user and professional reviews and reputation in determining my high-end gear selection.
I found the reviews on the X-05 were overwhelmingly positive and I also was aware that Esoteric has long enjoyed a very respected reputation.
Most of my previous CD source came from a Sony 777ES modified by Warren Gregoire in N. Cal.
I was generally pleased with the sound but I felt that if fell short of my analogue set-up which I sold after we downsized. This was really not a fair comparison since my analogue system which consisted of a SME 20/2 TT, SME V arm and Shelter 90X cartridge was on an entirely differ level.
I pulled the trigger on the X-05 when I learned of a pre-owned unit being sold at a very fair price by a local dealer here in So. Cal. At the time Scott Walker, mentioned an upgrade to the X-05. My curiosity got the best of me and I shortly also purchased a pre-owned Esoteric Master Clock G-O3X. The improvement was subtle but unmistakeable. As a result, I have vigorously been adding to my extensive SACD collection.
The sound. I find the Esoteric very sensitive to the quality and format of the CD being played. In the past, I liked SACD and higher rez recordings but did not always hear a big difference between those and red book recordings. Not so with the X-05 and Clock.
After maybe listening 30 seconds, I was astounded by the improvement over my previous digital system. The SQ was much more analogue sounding than before. I found the sound more relaxed, engaging and dimensional. Sure, it may not quite measure up to my former analogue system playing 45 rpm disc but at times it gets very close.
Should you wish to talk to my dealer, Scott Walker with whom I have a high regard for let me know. He is a pleasure to work with. Hope this helps.
> > I was generally pleased with the sound but I felt that if fell short of my analogue set-up which I sold after we downsized. This was really not a fair comparison since my analogue system which consisted of a SME 20/2 TT, SME V arm and Shelter 90X cartridge was on an entirely differ level. < <
> > The SQ was much more analogue sounding than before. I found the sound more relaxed, engaging and dimensional. Sure, it may not quite measure up to my former analogue system playing 45 rpm disc but at times it gets very close. < <
Never been a big Esoteric fan, but your above statement can easily be related to my own experiences using alternative digital players vs top-grade vinyl.
To that end, if I was in the market, I'd consider auditioning the X05 based on your recommendation here alone.
tb1
I'm glad to read your positive comments, JayG. This morning I ordered the last X-05 in stock from Music Direct. It should arrive here on Saturday. I wanted a bullet-proof player with excellent sound, and I'm hoping the Esoteric fills the bill. The sale price and free shipping were impossible for me to pass up.
The Marantz SA-11S2 now residing in my main system will be moved to my secondary/nearfield setup in my bedroom.
DPM, so after owning Esoteric X-05 for a little bit, how would you compare its sound to the SA-11S2. Are you happy with your choice?
Congratulations DMP. I hope you will be as happy with your X-05 as I am with mine.
Sometime you may want to try one of the SHM SACD discs. They are about $60 a pop so a bit pricey compared to the much less expensive prices of regular used SACDs you can find on Amazon. I bought the SHM-SACD Sampler which also includes a duplicate disc in standard SACD so you can make the comparison.
You stated that the SA-14 V2 has provided "many years of listening pleasure." Why seek to make a change? A technological advance in hopes of getting closer? I ask as it may be a change that you are ultimately unhappy with and you may end up making changes elsewhere to justify it's existence. I feel that your money may be better spent on new software.
Well, you're either the wisest man on this forum or just a big party-pooper. (I'm kidding, of course.) Your question is certainly valid. Here's my logic: over the past couple of years I have replaced my power amp and preamp with vastly superior components; thus it's very likely that the SA-14 is now the weakest link in the signal chain. I'm assuming that replacing the Marantz will bring my primary signal source up to a comparable level of excellence.
And I most likely will keep spending more money on new software regardless of what happens!! :-)
I agree with your assessment. Looking to upgrade your gear and hopefully the SQ of your system is a natural and expected outcome of this hobby. I find it a joy to realize improvements in sound from choices I've made. Don't let anyone discourage you from moving forward. Enjoy and good luck.
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