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I check this side of our pond every so often but spend most of my Asylum time elsewhere. And then, in some other forums.
It just dawned on me that I've seen SACD brought up as an actionable subject in more places recently than I recall in years. I mean people defending it as well as people adopting for the first time, and wanting more.
In what could be ironic, if true, I perceive that the popularity of the multi-format Blu-ray Oppos may have had an effect that Sony never achieved. More people are sampling what's left of SACD. Who knows!
One can get bouts of wishful thinking, of course....and I did switch beer brands recently...
Follow Ups:
.... seemed to have collections of CD and/or vinyl versions of the SACDs being reviewed. It seems to me the primary audience for SACDs are the generations which grew up on vinyl, at least initially. And I'm sorry to say, these seem to be mostly old geezer audiophiles who will go the way of the Do Do birds in a few years.
How many of new generation of so-called music listeners are going to spend the time to put down their Ipods and Itunes and listen to high resolution music on a decent sound system ? And how many can stand the possibility of collecting and playing back music on those quaint silver discs rather than computer hard drives/memory sticks ?
I was hoping I'd be able to see concert videos with high resolution audio combined with hi-def video on Blu-ray releases but the results have been pretty sporadic/spotty so far.
Any chance we'd see DSD at 5.6Mhz on consumer media anytime soon ?
Hi Oscar,
"these seem to be mostly old geezer audiophiles who will go the way of the Do Do birds in a few years. "
Though I am not a SA-CD net regular, I do qualify for the group above. I left vinyl (by accidents to my stuff) and could never embrace Red Book until recently (upsampling). After years of traveling, which reduced the opportunity to sit and listen, SACD was my only way to return to audio, not wanting to rebuild the lost LP collection.
Which brings the operating concept to bear: "sit to listen"
You are right, the youngters will not easily stay put. Though for context, let's all remember that even in the "best of times" people like us have always been a small minority. The advent of music recordings & vinyl playback did not create a mass of "sit-to-listen" majority in the US population (radio did this for other reasons). As they got more popular, we simply had more people walking about and doing chores while "hearing music". I often wonder if FM car radios may have nurtered our ranks far more than we give it credit for.
I suspect that only as our younger generation starts sitting down a little, the few that do spend the time actually listening may want more. If their ears were not damaged by their previous intensive exposure, there is hope.
OTOH, to TBone's, point, many young vinyl adopters find it easily enchanting when first exposed to it. It is quite a different audio experience for many of them. For a lot of them, it is "exotic" also, which is a different kind of charm, more social than individual.
In any event, if enough of them sit to listen, many will eventually want more. If stuff like SACD survives and does not become "exotic" by then,...
> > It seems to me the primary audience for SACDs are the generations which grew up on vinyl, at least initially. < <
Disagree, in fact, most vinylphiles I know regarded DSD/SACD as just another attempt at attaining another consumer format, one that also required you to re-purchase yet another musical inventory, one with an obvious DRM agenda, put about by a manufacturer who had already "fooled" 'philes via "perfect sound forever".
> > And I'm sorry to say, these seem to be mostly old geezer audiophiles who will go the way of the Do Do birds in a few years. < <
Well, vinyl remains a major audiophile passion, while SACD ...
At the very least, vinylphiles can hang their hats on not having universally adopted yet another failed format which promised audio nirvana.
tb1
How much of the vinyl "resurgence" is due to the generations who grew up in the Age of "Perfect Sound Forever" ?
... perhaps the initial digital generation finally figure out what we "do-do birds" came to pass decades ago ... that vinyl done right was head over heals the more natural musical format ... although far from "perfect".
tb1
Last major SACD offensive?
Robert C. Lang
Battle of the Bulge?
At a glance I thought this might be about audiophile waist lines and Vegas trade show gluttony. Silly me. At the trade shows many I see could use some help at their Midway. Suppose a hobby mostly spent with ones arse planted on seat in front of stereo isn't going to turn one into an Arnold.
Could be - at the very least, it's just going to continue the fragmentation of the market. I know we agree that there have been many great SACD recordings, but I'm not sure that the introduction of this format to the market was necessarily a good thing.
Just look at some of the benefits that many SACDs provide:
1. High resolution
2. High fidelity
3. Multi-channel audio
4. Stereo
5. Redbook CD layer
6. Often better and more careful recordings
Nevertheless, what I lament is the fragmentation of the market through the introduction of DSD. In retrospect, I wonder if it has really been for the best. I think at one time, many of us expected that the Redbook CD layer might be a way to "hook" listeners to hi-rez through backwards compatibility. It doesn't seem to me that this really panned out. In any case, we can no onger go back, and we have to live with the market fragmentation which has been wrought. Perhaps with downloads, this fragmentation will no longer loom as large as it seems to now.
I am not seeing much fragmentation but rather the opposite...consolidation into two camps...downloads and physical media.
When it comes to physical media, CD is on the decline, SACD hangs on in there, vinyl hangs on in there (SACD and vinyl are the preffered audiophile formats), and DVD-A vanished long ago.
. . . that digital hi-rez is fragmented among downloads, SACD, and Blu-ray (which has succeeded DVD-Audio as the the main disc-based carrier of hi-rez PCM - with or without a picture).
Even among downloads, we're starting to see fragmentation, as some sites are beginning to offer DSD downloads. Perhaps this may not be as much of an issue in the long run, IF equipment which supports the various file types becomes the norm.
I do agree that CD may indeed be on the decline, but, even so, I believe that CD sales are still orders of magnitude more than SACD or vinyl.
Blu-ray may be replaceing DVD-V but I don't see that it has replaced DVD-A.
Very, very few companies are releasing Blu-ray music discs (which are rarer than DVD-A discs, that is rarer than hen's teeth).
The general public see blu-ray as a video format exclusively.
Basically true though the most recent group of Blu-ray discs
I received for review does have six audio only releases.....
Nevertheless, blu-ray is a disc-based carrier of hi-rez PCM (just as DVD-A was), regardless of how the public sees it. In fact, blu-ray could be a kind of stealth way to get the masses into of hi-rez audio! ;-)
Also, just from the audio point of view, some blu-rays, such as the recent Chailly/Leipzig Mahler Symphonnies (2 and 8), Mehta's Spanish "science fiction" Ring Cycle, and the Turandot (the Spanish one, not the Met one), need take a back seat to no other recordings as far as sound quality is concerned. Just IMHO.
The recent APO Wish You Were Here was the biggest SACD since Dark Side of the Moon. Meanwhile, MoFi has been churning out popular rock titles. APO's Blue Note, Impulse and Verve programs don't hurt either. I don't know if I'd call it a resurgence but SACD is still going strong as a niche format.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
With more people getting into computer audio, some of them really want to be able to get their SACDs onto the computer. Since three PS3 models with pre-v3.55 firmware can be made to rip SACDs thanks to an app, they now have a way. And because of that, many have said they are buying more SACDs because of the PS3's new "feature".
Funny how that works.
If ripping is really so simple, is there a place i can send my SACD's to and receive a harddisk with files back?
But ripping SACDs is done from an illegal circumvention of the PS3's security system to begin with.
Just go to computeraudiophile.com ( audiocircle.com and stereo.net.au are two others) and type PS3 in the search box. Plenty of info and experiences to read re: the process.
I think people are more intested in ripping and burning than listening.
Ripping -- Yes.
Burning -- No. Who burns? The ripped data goes to a hard drive, not a writable CD/DVD.
Listening -- Maybe. Let the DSD vs PCM debate reignite! As DSD capable DACs hit the market, there will be a renewed war of words re: these two formats.
If DSD didn't include it's copying roadblocks, I think it would have stood a much better chance with consumers.
> > As DSD capable DACs hit the market, there will be a renewed war of words re: these two formats. < <
Unlikely, since the industry is quickly moving towards universal type non-physical digital media, I don't think people will really care or even acknowledge what "format" it's in ... as long as was recorded properly and it justifies it's cost.
TB1
Joe, I think the old DSD/PCM debate may be less heated if it comes up again. People are discovering that things are not so B&W.
There was a time when I could not listen to red book for long. SACD was my only choice (not able to rebuild my lost LP collection).
While, to this day, I listen to classical/orchestral music via SACD if I have a choice, the advent of upsampled PC-based red book has narrowed the difference significantly. For example, much of the Jazz sounds great via my PC system. If I am in a lazy mood, I can use the PC instead of going to the SACD player. Then again, when I have the time and the SACD version, I am less lazy, on avarage. LOL!
I use Korg Audiogate Software, burn DSD discs from any Hi-Rez sampling rate, and play them on my VSE Sony 5400. Guilty as charged!
Interesting post! My first thought is how many Oppo owners are listening to SACD through the downsampled PCM converted HDMI output.
In my mind, the excitement has returned via the SHM SACD releases by Universal Japan.
I bought the SHM-SACD Sampler. As you may know, it contains the SHM-SACD and the standard SACD version of the same cuts. I certainly heard a very significant difference as the sound stage and overall clarity on the SHM-SACD really improved. I also was not personally thrilled with some of the selections but did enjoy Corcovado/ Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto and They Can't Take That Away From Me/Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong
However, and it's a big however, at $60 bucks a pop I'm not too eager to start major collection.
However, and it's a big however, at $60 bucks a pop I'm not too eager to start major collection.
..and therein lies the rub for many.
Honey, what was that you said - I didn't catch it?
My "ah ha!" moment was the awareness of hearing loss in my upper frequencies, easily noticeable when listening to cymbals and brushes on cymbals. So-o I'm not so distraught over not replacing many of my SACD's with SHM SACD's, or for that matter, saving-up for something like a 8K Audience adept response power conditioner.
The Oppo doesn't downsample on HDMI. Not 'neccessarily' at least. It does DSD over HDMI. Only reason they'd be listening to downsampled PCM is if that's all that their upstream HDMI receiver was capable of?
Thanks Michi, you learn something everyday. I have been under the impression that Sony forbade "digital out" for the DSD bitstream.
This brings up an interesting point. Which sounds better, the Oppo 95 analog outs or SACD's played using the HDMI output.
on the signal and to what it is connected.
Experts declared SACD as a DEAD format, that was 10 years ago.
But this thing refuses to die, strange?
http://www.sa-cd.net/showthread/82289//y?page=first
Vahe
SACD is a declining format mostly populated by over forty classical music (stereo and surround sound) audiophiles. Until SACD players are no longer being produced, SACD will remain a viable niche market with a small slice of music sales and Oppo players won't change that.
One was crossing the street on Market St ,SF, right in front of me, on a red light, oblivious, until my car horn jolted her out her reverie. All young people I know listen to music on Phones and lap-tops. I'm partying down with SACD while I can!
I always worry that the kids may have damaged their ears too much by the time they could have discovered how much more there is to music.
Of course I agree.Perhaps music lovers and audiophiles finally realize that what I say in my many reviews " we have buy the releases and not wait for the distributers to almost give them away!" It is a business - buy them and they will make more of them-Wake Up!
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