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I just pulled all my gear, cleaned and now setting it all back up, and got my power cords mixed up... could someone tell me what the Brand and Model of theirs is so I can seperate..Thanks,
Follow Ups:
A simply Horch with ferrite rings both sides. I tried a bigger and expensive one, similar Shunyata, but I didn't like it.
nt
Rick
It does,nt make any difference...After hundreds of feet of standard line feed do you think the last four feet will improve the quality of digital 0 & 1 numbers?
As I understand it, the reason for improved performance with better powercords is that most stock power cords emit RF interference. The result is a magnetic field in and around the cord that can affect nearby components. The better cords have more effective shielding.
Perhaps some of the engineers on this forum can give a better explanation.
zako is a power cord naysayer. Despite numerous attempts by others to provide him with information that counters his beliefs, he continues to post his "power cords are a scam" diatribe on a regular basis.zako has made up his mind, and is not interested in opposing views or data.
Sure I,m interested in opposing views...IF they work...But so far my impericle findings show the opposite.
If your gear or your ears aren't capable of displaying or discerning a difference, that's fine; however, single data points are pretty much worthless when it comes time to make solid judgments. Assuming that your experiences are applicable to everyone else is foolish.I hate to say this, but given the extremely limited parameters of your "findings," your running around declaring that upgrade power cords are a universal "scam" and that they can't work just makes you look narrow-minded and silly.
You say you are interested in opposing views, but every time you have posted your "power cords are a scam" diatribe, you have complete ignored anything anyone said that gainsays your opinion.
I would be very much interested in the data you reference.
Robert C. Lang
Out of interest, what data supports the notion that power cables make an audible difference? All I see are lots of test that prove the opposite. A few links would be great. Thanks!
Some links please.
Regards,
Geoff
I have never seen any credible science that either refutes or supports the merits of higher-end power cords. Articles I have seen in audiophile magazines almost always support their claims of improved sound. Articles that tend to refute claims of higher-end power cords that I have seen are found outside of the audiophile press. An exception is the "Audio Critic" that has taken a clear position against expensive power cords. An "Audio Critic" article link is below. But again their stance is taken with out the benefit of science.
Robert C. Lang
My two cents. To say power cords do not change the sound of the equipment that it is connected to is crap, anyone can hear it.
Having said that, in my experience power cords are a crap shoot, you never know how they are going to work on a given piece of gear and I would say the audiophile press has never given a clear outstanding of why this is so. Though they now are backing away in reviewing them and I think is is due to a lot of issues.
I think just like speaker cables you are dealing with a lot of variables, impendence, how the power supply reacts to the cord etc. Even the manufactures stay away from proving why there cords are better then the next guy’s cords.
I have just received a few new power cords and none of them sound the same and anyone in my house could hear the difference in 30 seconds.
One is warmer, one is fast and brighter sounding and one is right in between with a slight roll of at the top, one sounds great on my cd player and so-so on the amp but good on the pre-amp.
So anyone who said they cannot make a huge difference is not of this world, the problem is its a crap shoot, no reviewer can tell you how it's sounds, you can only say how it sounds in your system, the next guy may have a totally different experience.
I do think sound of the power cords are crazy priced. No cord should ever cost more then a piece of equipment, I have looked inside many and it’s just wire! Do I think its snake oil and BS? Yes some of the time.
But I think the cable designers all know, no matter what power cord you hook up it is going to sound different then the stock cord or any current cord you are using, so they are in a no lose situation. So yes the sound does change and that is a fact Jack!
This topic has been beaten to death on AA (and is currently undergoing a similar beating here in this forum). There are plenty of threads on this, and some interesting information from people who have done measurements. The AA search feature is your best bet.Now - you say that there are "lots of test that prove the opposite." What tests are those, how many is "lots," and what exactly did they prove?
.
Yesterday a friend brought over a highly modded Sony SACD/CD player (don't remember the model #) boasting the Allen Wright Level 5 Mods. It sounded very ordinary next to my Raysonic CD 128 -- we were playing CDs -- and we couldn't figure out why. Finally I switched my own PC (CryoMax III wire with Furutech ends) for the Sony's stock cord and the improvement would have been apparent to Beethoven in his later years. I exaggerate, but only a little.
I can certainly support an argument that an “inadequate” or undersized power cord can hurt performance (or worse). (Certainly not entirely analogous but a good water filter has been proven to improve water quality at the tap).I don't know whether upgrades over a “stock” power cord make an audible difference (improvement) or not. I've never compared them and I've only heard people "say" that they make an audible improvement. But most of the gear I own have come stock with power cords that "look" (snake like) the part of something better than "run the mill" power cords. Since I believe my gear sounds good I can only assume that the stock power cords are of quality commensurate to the components that they feed.
An exception to the "snake like" power cords that have come stock with my components is the one connected to the Sony SCD-1. It “looks” ordinary and is not nearly as robust looking as the Kimber power cord that comes stock with EMM Labs gear. Maybe I should swap power cords between the two components and see if I can hear an improvement or a difference. I'm not about to do that; I don't have the time or the inclination and plan on selling the Sony anyway.
But it does make me ask the question why isn't (wasn’t) the stock power cord upgraded as a matter of course by the company doing the mod since considerable expense is invested to mod a component, especially to a “5” level? If audible improvements are readily apparent among power cards it would seem to make common sense and a formidable selling spiel that a company performing mods would change the stock power cord as a first order of business or at least recommend that such cord be upgraded.
Robert C. Lang
There can be a positive synergy between a modded unit and a specific power cord, esp. when the modder also makes a power cord that brings out the best in its modded units. That's the case with Tube Research Labs (TRL)that offers purchasers of its mods a bargain price on its CRL (formerly FIM) power cables. TRL modded my Sony CD player a while back and the CRL pc took the modded cdp to another level compared to the "other brand" pc that I'd been using with it.
Companys do not provide upgrades on power cords because they are not needed in signal path.
I recently tried a friend's 'Felicia' balanced power unit in my system front end, a Sony SCD777 VSE L5+, and was so pleased by the improvement that I am having one built for me. The improvement in terms of smoothness and lack of 'hash' was striking. My 777 sounded much more like vinyl than before and for me that is high praise. Whilst this is not the power-cord per-se, it is what feeds that cord. I am increasingly convinced that there is something quite complicated going on here - Allen's reasons make good sense and go some way to explaining why improved power supplies, by whatever means, make a difference. I too dismissed this as snake oil in the past, I'm no longer so sure.
Dave
But whatever. I had forgotten that the benefits of power cord upgrades (and receptacles, and power conditioning) are not yet wholly taken for granted. But actually I was a power cord agnostic for a long time -- "it just CAN'T make much difference, can it?" -- and sometime ago built a few of the so-called Asylum Power Cords made of Belden 19364 wire with Pass & Seymour AC Plugs and Shurter IEC connectors, mainly because it could be done for 30-35 bucks or so, depending on length. These so outperformed stock cords in my system that I splurged on a pair of Wattgate 381 receptacles -- NOT cheap -- and was hooked.The ones I'm using now are as much better than the Asylum Power Cords as those were better than the stock cords. Better how? Better everything. Better bass in particular, but also more clarity and authority from top to bottom. A sense of limitless, effortless dynamics.
From POWER cords? Yeah, sounds counterintuitive, doesn't it. I wouldn't have believed it myself.
...as we don't know the client's electrical power circumstances.What may work best in our location (Schaffhausen, Switzerland/230VAC) or one of our agents sites worldwide, may not be best in the particular clients home location.
Power cords, if/when they make any improvement, do so by filtering out either the often severe hash on the incoming AC line - OR - by stopping digital hash coming OUT of the player (via the powercord) getting into other sensitive units like a preamp via their power cords - OR - both.
The only way to really find out what's best for your situation is have a great dealer who is willing to lend you a bunch of power cords and to try them...
Regards, Allen
Thank you for the important clarifications.I think it’s important for a perspective purchaser to know that an audiophile grade power cord *may* or *may not* result in audible improvements depending on their “electrical power circumstances”.
Is there a dependable way to measure or gauge these circumstances? Is there a way to measure or gauge “hash” in the incoming AC line so as to better determine what, if any, third party power cord may be warranted?
I know for me, personally, from what I can *see*, my power situation *seems* fine. All my electrical appliances and lights seem to function as intended. My computers work as they are suppose to. My monitors look as good (but not necessarily any better) than any other similar monitors I see around the area or country. We rarely have blackouts or brown outs, so I guess the grid is staple. Our solar electrical array produces even more electricity than was projected (but we are getting less over cast days the last 3 years-perhaps due to global warming?)
But I suspect that little, if any, of what I cited has a direct parallel to “electrical power circumstances” and “hash in the incoming AC line” that can effect what we *hear* through our sound systems. So how do we measure/determine whether an audiophile grade power card would provide audible improvements?
Thank you.
is going to make much difference as to the "hash" that comes from the power company. I think you are going to have to go to a power management/filtering system like the PS audio products to make much of a difference. Balanced power can also greatly help as was mentioned by a previous poster.However, there is a relatively strong magnetic field that may form near a power cord as a function of RF interference, particularly one that feeds a high current piece of equipment like a power amp or flat screen TV. All of your equipment also generates some radiated RF interference that can be picked up by a cheaper powercord and input into another component. CRT TVs are especially bad offenders. I expect some tube power amps may emit a surprising amount of RF radiation as well. This is the "hash" referred to by other posters that is picked up by cheap powercords. The effect can range from nonexistent to very obvious depending on how susceptible your equipment may be to that RF interference. High quality well-shielded powercords can make a huge difference if you have this problem
The PS audio Power Plant measures deviations in harmonic distortion of the electical signal from the power company as do several other power management products. But I'll tell you that same thing you would tell me. The only thing you should trust is your ears. Try a higher quality powercord on some of your components and see if it results in an improvement. I'd do the power amp first but others may disagree. In reading reviews of high-end stereo equipmnent, it is clear that many designers worry greatly about cleaning up the power. We should as well.
The "last four feet" argument is commonly espoused but it is irrelevant. The effect of the radiated RF interference from both components and powercords greatly decreases with distance to the electronic components, so it is the four feet closest to the component that really matters.
What may work best in our location (Schaffhausen, Switzerland/230VAC) or one of our agents sites worldwide, may not be best in the particular clients home locationThat makes sense.
Off topic Allen ... but how far away from Schaan, Leichtenstein are you? I may have a business trip to Schaan coming up.
Regards,
Geoff
It would be a maximum of about 120 miles (if I remember how long a mile is).Leichtenstein borders on the north eastern edge of Switzerland and it's easy Autobahn drive to Schaffhausen - although with Swiss speed limits (120km/h) not German ones...
Would be great to see you here!
I'll have to brush up on my kilometres. Too long in the USA has me thinking in Imperial weights and measures.
Regards,
Geoff
Heard there were still three countries in the world that still use them, one is some small ex-British colony in central Africa, the second also ex-British, is some small off shoot of India, and the third...snal fingers...slipped my memory...
Perhaps those that provide commecial modifications should "voice" their products to a particular power cord. Better yet, they could design their own and offer them as optional upgrades.
it's the connectors.
I've built a lot of PCs lately, and the wire is every bit as important -- assuming that the connectors you use are boderline passable (e.g., at least $4.95 at Home Depot) and the wire is something like Belden 19364. Won't beat the ones I mentioned, but the resulting PC will sure beat the stock cord.
Dave, what do you think of those Home Depot orange hospital plug receptacles? I've been thinking of trying one. How much difference would it make?
Short answer -- I simply don't know. I had hospital grade receptacles installed at the time our home was built and dedicated lines installed. At the time (1994), the better quality "audio grade" receptacles didn't even exist, AFAIK. I know that these can be much better-sounding than the orange ones, but I still find it a little hard to believe.
Rick
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